AT same weight and charge will jackted and plated shoot the same?

[egd]

I've been using RMR 124 rn hc plated bullets exclusively. They are out right now and and what with the move and all I wasn't sure when more would be made, so I ordered their jacketed ones instead. But now I've been wondering if I will have to adjust my charge any. I wouldn't think so, but I thought I'd check here to see if anyone had this experience.
And no I don't want to start all over and work up a charge. I'm not doing bullseye shooting, just uspsa,steel, etc. And I ain't that good anyway.

 

[RussellC]

Jacketed will usually take a little more velocity, but your charge should be fine. What may alter is the OAL, as bullet seater dies act differently to different bullet ogives and will seat them differently sometimes. Also, if there is a length difference in the two bullets, that must be accounted for. For everything to be as similar as possible, there should be the same amount of space inside the case. If your new bullet is longer than the plated bullet, and you set them to the same length, the one with the longer bullet is more compressed, (that is, more bullet is in the case) and the pressure will be higher. (9mm is a high pressure round to start with)

As an example, I had a good load for Hornady XTP HP in .45 and wanted to use this load for a same weight (185 grain) bullet, but RN, which was a little longer that the XTP bullet. Measured both with my calipers, found how much longer the RN was and added that to the OAL. This should give approximately the same amount of "empty" space inside the case. Plus, the RN were hollow back, so I was giving the a little more space to boot. Now I can shoot them and work up if necessary.

Russellc

 

[longdayjake]

Very rarely can you switch from one bullet to another and have them shoot the same. And that is regardless of any type of coating or jacket. Anytime I switch from one bullet to another I expect to work up a good load for the new bullet no matter what.

 

[egd]

Jake, are the plated and jacketed the same dimensions? I love your bullets.

 

[RussellC]

All bullets and all gun barrels are different. Accuracy will be all over the place, some guns like certain bullets better than others,
In that regard they will need to be worked up, but you have a safe place to begin by keeping the effective charge the same, powder and empty case space.

In the example I gave with the 185 grain round nose, the round nose bullet I had was more accurate at less powder than the XTP Hornady bullets.

Russellc

 

[jmorris]

No, it's actually two "exactly" the same loads fired from the same gun within seconds of one another, won't shoot the same.

This is why we have ES, SD and averages instead of a single FPS per load. Start changing things and the difference is even larger.

 

[RussellC]

"All bullets and all barrels" is what I just said I believe, no disagreement here, right?

Russellc
,

 

[jmorris]

"All bullets and all barrels" is what I just said I believe, no disagreement here, right?

No disagreement from me. I was responding to the "shoot the same" question in the title.

Even if someone tried to make every round exactly the same the odds of getting SD's and ES's to equal zero are not very good and just get worse as you change things.

 

[RussellC]

Gotcha! I cant get bullets to shoot the same from the same batch, but I think its me! (but I'll blame the bullets!)

Russellc

 

[longdayjake]

Jake, are the plated and jacketed the same dimensions? I love your bullets.

No, they are different. I use the same data for both when I'm just looking to quickly makes stuff and I don't want to change the press. That said, if I want a good accurate load I usually have to tailor it specifically for that bullet.

 

[Walkalong]

Well, in 9MM, the Ranier plated 115 gr RN and Hornady 115 Gr FMJ RN both shot pretty close to the same velocity for the same amount of powder, with 3 or 4 different powders. That is the only application where I have shot similar plated and jacketed bullets with identical loads, so is a small sample.

So, for handguns with fast to medium powders, maybe .1 Gr or so tweak to get nearly identical velocity with jacketed vs plated, assuming similar full diameter portions (Friction) of the bullets. ??

 

[egd]

I'll save a few of my plated and compare them to the jacketed when they come in, then load a few and see what happens. I really doubt that given my level of shooting I'll be able to tell any difference.

 

[cfullgraf]

I've been loading and shooting 45 ACP for decades. 230 grain RN bullets, home cast, purchased cast, plated and jacketed. I use the same load for all and they shoot effectively the same for me in my 1911s.

Now, they are primarily general shooting rounds.

If I was competing, I'd do the work to optimize my ammunition for the game at hand.

 

[RussellC]

I'll save a few of my plated and compare them to the jacketed when they come in, then load a few and see what happens. I really doubt that given my level of shooting I'll be able to tell any difference.

That's my problem too, but I like to think I'm getting somewhere!

Russellc

 

[LiveLife]

At same weight and charge will jacketed and plated shoot the same?

So far, my testing shows RMR FMJ (made in-house) is more consistent and produces smaller groups than RMR Hardcore Match thick plated bullets.

RMR 115 gr FMJ bullet-to-bullet weight variance is less than .5 grain (on par with Hornady 115 gr HAP) and OAL variance is less than .003" while RMR 115 gr Hardcore Match thick plated bullet-to-bullet weight variance is less than 1 grain and OAL variance is around .005".

Chrono data from Glock 22/KKM conversion barrel and Caldwell chronograph:

RMR 115 gr FMJ 1.130" OAL:
4.0-4.1 gr: 1008-981-991-1023-1034 fps
4.2-4.3 gr: 1049-1053-1067-1055-1085 fps
4.2-4.3 gr: 1072-1045-1078-1059-1077 fps - SD 14 (Third range trip as second range trip's hard rain prevented set up of chrono)

RMR 115 gr Hardcore Match RN 1.130" OAL:
4.0-4.1 gr: 986-1002-1071-975-1002 fps
4.2-4.3 gr: 1024-1054-1030-1036-1030 fps

And corresponding 25 yard 10 shot groups with 17" Just Right carbine/RMR 115 gr FMJ and HCM with 4.2-4.3 gr IMR Target - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ng-at-25-50-yards.808446/page-4#post-10517600

Third range trip with RMR 115 gr FMJ and 4.2-4.3 gr IMR Target at 1.130" - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ectan-ba-9-5-ba-9.817796/page-2#post-10511758

 

[wally]

Its really going to depend on what you are shooting and what you are shooting at. I've shot .45ACP for years using any primer, any case, 6.0gr Unique and any bullet -- 185gr JHP, 200gr LSWC, 200gr LRNFP, 230gr LRN, 230gr FMJ, and 230 gr plated. Shooting steel plates at ~15 yards, I've never needed to tweak my red dots with a change of bullet. Longer ranges or smaller targets could have different POA/POI needs.

 

[egd]

Humm, BDS. That's interesting. I had wondered about that also and am waiting to see this batch. For the small difference in price it will be worth it I think.

ETA- I'm really wanting to see the difference in ogive shape/consistency as it relates to oal. RMR makes a great product with their hc plated and if they can even do better with the jacketed, then Wow!