At the range--draw and shoot quick or take your time?

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Cosmoline

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I've been shooting handguns actively for a decade now, and I've noticed a huge change in how I approach shooting short guns. When I started I tried very hard to get small groups and fussed around with various stances, trying to get them down pat. These days I just load up six speedloaders and slam out strings of five off the SP101. I don't pay much attention to stance or grip, I just focus on eliminating any hesitations. I'm trying to load, aim fire and empty in one fast movement with no adjustments or posture corrections. Even if the cylinder is still loose when I close it, I let the revolver fix the problem rather than setting it to the next click. I don't LET myself fix a poor stance if I'm not quite right when the arm comes up. I just blast away. I've also moved the target from 25 yards up to about 10. I am for a COM size area about a foot across and just try to get my lead in there.

My reasoning is, if I actually had to draw and fire IRL I would not have time to correct my posture or get my grip just right. The key is to make drawing and blasting a smooth and almost automatic act from any position. Does anyone else use this method or should I go back to way I was doing it before?
 
Sounds like you took the time and trouble to learn how to shoot straight and you're now working on the practical stuff.

I've been shooting for 35 years now (started at 6 and from my late teens put easily 500 rounds a weekend downrange) and once I got over the pure accuracy-only basics, I then went for the best combination of speed and accuracy of which I was capable.

I then started fiddling with the practical, real-life, stuff happens kind of drills. Unusual positions, falling over, shooting on the run (and I mean run, not trot), checking for cover vs concealment, etc, etc.

Most of my range-work these days is close-range - if I feel lazy and want a warm up, I'll start shooting round target-patches stuck on the target at 10 yards, the aim being to hit the patch so that the outer edge remains intact. Then it's 3 and 5 yard targets, again with a patch as an ideal spot to hit using strong- and weak-hand then two-handed, using sights and not using sights. To cool down I'll put the last 20 rounds or so at an 8" steel plate at 50-yards.

Of course, that was all before I moved to the US recently - still don't have a handgun *growl*
 
Bill Jordan use to say... Do it smooth and often, the speed will come!!
 
We've got a bunch of falling plate/steel stuff at the range the club bought. The silouhettes are cool, sort of half size. I do my speed drills on them and my accuracy drill practice on the 6" plates at 25 yards. I still wanna be accurate as possible when I need to be. I use handguns to hunt. They're not just self defense tools for me, never were. I like to pot rabbits, squirrels, and such with 'em. Shot some IHMSA for a while, good way to judge your accuracy skills. I've shot local matches from pins to some IDPA stuff to pepper popper matches to whatever. I like it all, so I practice it all.

I'm pretty confident in my self defense skills. What I more worry about far as self defense, not having any combat experience, is the senarios I might be caught up in and how to handle 'em. I think about such stuff a lot, do the "what if" thing. To me, situational awareness and having a good tactical plan is more important than the actual shooting. Chip McCormick and his race gun could be taking on a near sighted, on armed guy with a .32, but if that one armed guy is behind good cover and Chip is standing there shooting in the open, I think the one armed guy has a chance. My object is survival, not quickness, accuracy, or anything else when it comes to self defense. I always figured the guy that fought with his head had an advantage. I hope I never get to test all this, though. I'm perfectly happy just playing my little gun games and being ignorant. :D
 
Cosmoline said: Does anyone else use this method or should I go back to way I was doing it before?

Do whatever makes you happy.


Everyone has different preferences. Some look at pistol shooting, and shooting in general, as merely a sport. One local range allows NO rapid fire, and NO shooting on any target shaped like anything resembling a human sillouette. Participation in organized shooting matches are "encouraged", but not required. That place just ain't for me. . .

The range I spend my time at permits drawing from concealment, shooting while moving, 360 checks. The only thing we're really strict about is shooting outside after dusk, to keep from pissing off the neighbors, and destroying things.



I mostly practice from contact distance to 3 yards, multiple targets maybe ranging out to 7. I'll shoot steel plates out at 15 yds for speed, and 50 yard plates for accuracy.

Between shooting and moving, I'm convinced moving off the line of force is more important than shooting. And while only hits count, perfection is the enemy of good enough. As long as my hits stay in the cardiac triangle, I'm not concerned where they are in it.
 
Yes, I use your method. My carry gun is for protection first. I shoot at targets only because they are better than shooting at armed opponents for practice which is generally frowned upon and it can also be a bit dangerous. :) :uhoh:

I go to the range often. During the first few sessions I shot my protection gun as a target pistol to get used to the feel, POI, etc.

After that I have always practiced as if I was in a protection situation. Close (5-7 yd), quick draws, many positions, moving and still, two-handed and one-handed, both weak and strong hands, mag changes, and I use various life-sized picture targets (not bullseye targets).

I always shoot three round groups; two to COM and one to head, or three to COM, or three to head. My basic goal is to get all hits within 1.5" of POA as fast as possible. I shoot for accuracy first, then slowly increase the speed until the accuracy goes over my 1.5" goal then I slow back down a bit.
 
Taking Defensive Handgun II at TR in Texas, we were drawing and firing short strings, usually 2 shots, COM, at about 5 yards. My shot groups were 4-6" and that was far too large for the instructors. My assigned partner was doing groups of 2-3 or maybe 2-4" as were many, but they were often shooting AFTER I had finished my string. That isn't to say that I was fast. My draw was actually slower, but my shooting faster. Once my sights initially settled COM, I would double tap. What the other shooters were doing was more of letting their sights settle, then fine tune correct for minscule error, then slow fire one shot, then two, or double tapping, but not until the first shot was perfect.

As this was all going on, the instructors on the PA were barking the Earp misquote of "Fast is fine, but accuracy is final." The misquote is right, but completely ignores an important caveat. That is, accuracy doesn't mean crap if you are too dead to be accurate. I may not have been a very good shot compared to my fellow students, but if I was fighting them in a gun fight, landing 2 shots on the my opponent, COM and within 6" of one another will minimally be messing with their ability to aim their perfectly aligned shots and very well may land them as completely dead before they have a chance to shoot.

No doubt smooth is fast. The difference in my shots (and 2 or 3 others) and those of many of the other students was in the range of a quarter or half second between when my shots started and theirs as the majority of the class would just about shoot together in a resounding thunder. That amount of time is what it takes many folks to let their sights fully settle.

The critical aspect here is shooting good enough to handle the job. Nobody measures distances between impact and X rings. So at 5 yards, for example, do you want to spend much extra time getting that perfect 2-3" group knowing that you are close enough to the bad guy that he may very well be able to start landing shots on you as a matter of proximity and spray and pray tactics? How well are you going to be finishing up the sight alignment when the first impact on you occur?

Ken Hackathorn had us do a nifty test at 10 yards. He had us aim perfectly, then move the gun so that the front sight moved fully left (but still aligned vertically) until we could just see the edge of it in the rear sight notch, then fire. We then did it to the right. Next we lowered it all the way until just barely seeing the top, but had it centered horizontally, then we fired. Last, we raised the front sight until the base of the front sight left the rear sight notch sight picture and then fired. All 4 shots landed on the silhouette at 10 yards. For most guns with proper sights, if you can see any part of the front sight in the rear sight notch and actually intend COM, you can hit the opposition at 10 yards. It may not be a good hit, but you can hit. On my gun, the impact area, using the corners was roughly 20" tall by 20" wide. That is a 400 square in area.

So if you have that much slop at 10 yards and can hit, at 5 yards you will have potential max impact area only about 1/4 the size of the impact area at 10 yards (reducing both vert. and hor. dimensions by 1/2 for the reduced range, assuming your sight notch is square). So the box is now 10x10" as max size for seeing the sights in the notch, or 1/4 the area.

Now, at 5 yards, if you can see half of your front sight in any of the 4 directions, only half, you have a 5x5" potential impact area or another 1/4 of the previous size. So that was about what I was doing, sometimes better, sometimes worse, but close. Now, take a 5x5" square and put it on your person COM. Would you be happy landing 2 shots in the box on a bad guy if you could do it BEFORE he shot you, or would you rather wait until you can line up the idea shot...keeping in mind you don't know the skill of the bad guy, but you know he is more than close enough to be effective via luck.

Hackathorn used this as a training point to help us shoot better, but it also showed just how far away a person could be and have crappy of a sight picture that person could have and still shoot you, maybe not lethally the first time.

Funny thing, the same gun school gurus really tight shot groups in practice will tell you that you will speed up in real life. They also tell you that you will shoot like you have trained. Okay, so you speed up. Given the circumstances of the fight, your opposition has undoubtedly sped up as well. If he speeds up as much as you, you may still be wasting time working the perfect shot since your increased speed may not be any more than his increased speed.

Of course you have to hit well enough to be effective, but spending time for the really precise "accuracy is final" shot may be what end up being final for you.
 
Smoothness and accuracy first, speed later.

There's a security cam video circulating on the internet where a hooded bad guy comes into a convenience store, whips out his pistol, loses his grip and actually throws it to the clerk. There's a millisecond pause, and then he heads back out the door.:D

That can happen. Think how embarassing it would be.

For a beginner, start with a exaggerated slow-motion draw (which is good for safety, too) for about a thousand rounds, then start speeding up. Take note of what happens -- if you have a bad draw, you may from time to time drop back to the slow-motion practice and smooth out any bad wrinkles that have developed.
 
I had an instructor tell us (the class) something that made a lot of sense in regards to defensive shooting...He said he wasn't looking for match style marksmanship, but rather "good enough". Good enough to stop a threat and get the job done...makes sense to me.
 
I usually do a mixture of slowfire at longer range, and Shooting to Live point-shooting at closer range.
 
I like it when I draw and the gun goes off by itself just as my arms reach full extension.

If the holes are close to the middle of the target, that's about right.
 
With the 1911 wadgun and marvel .22lr, 50/25 yards outdoor, bullseye practice. Use B6 & B8 targets.

Defensive shooting practice with Glock 19 & J-frame. B27/B29/B34(whichever): 7 & 15yards out door; or, 10-30(ish) feet indoor. Slow-aimed/fast-point/weak hand/etc. Mainly COM shots.


One day, I'll bring the 2" j-frame for CF.
 
I was taught that you need to go slow to go fast. Practice at a deliberate pace getting everything right and when pushed, the muscle memory should kick in and do the job you've trained for.
What I've noticed is that since I took so much time choosing guns that fit me properly, pointed naturally in my hands and shot straight, getting things lined up in a hurry isn't that difficult.
 
I began shooting strictly slow fire for fun and accuracy. As cross dominant (left eye, right handed) I shot with my left eye closed. As my fundamentals came together over time my accuracy became increasingly better and consistant. I recently found that both eyes were opening naturally and my slow fire training made my presentation naturally stop at eye level with good sight alignment. The result is that I find myself taking much faster shots "slow fire" while increasing my accuracy and am able to maintain relatively good accuracy (controlling recoil and recovery) pulling the trigger as fast as my range will allow. It's cut my range time in half!:D

My point is that it seems to me you can approach speed and accuracy from either direction. They can be complimentary.
 
Practice, practice, practice and then trust your muscle memory to do the rest. Make sure your practice is as disciplined as it can be under the circumstances you are imposing on yoursefl. Your muscle memory will do the rest for you - just trust it;)
 
I practice a smooth draw with no wasted motion, disregarding speed. It gets faster all by itself the more you practice.

Shooting, I practice double-taps and rapid fire at 10-15 yards.

Precision? That's what rifles are for...
 
I practice a smooth draw with no wasted motion, disregarding speed. It gets faster all by itself the more you practice.

That's exactly right -- smooth, flawless execution with no wasted motion is what you want to practice. Speed will come with time.
 
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