At what distance do you test accuracy?

[1SOW]

When I bought my Sig 239 (3.6" bbl), a 25yd target with group came with the gun
My CZ is tested at 25yds by the CZ Custom shop after working on it.

I can't see testing a 2" snubby at 25 yds.

I also can't see testing my 4.72" bbl CZ, or my 5" bbl .22 target pistol at 7 yds.

It is a judgement call. Longer bbl pistols are expected to be able to 'reach out'.

The ammunition should be tailored to meet you and your gun's needs.

 

[James2]

I say if you are testing the accuracy of a load, you should use sandbags and eliminate as much as possible shooter error. Otherwise how do I know if I goofed or the load is off?

Distances? You must shoot far enough that a slight difference will show up. For me that is 25 yards for pistol, and 100 yards for rifle. If you use that 44 for hunting I would certainly test the loads at 50 yards or more also.

Once you have established a good accurate load, then is the time to shoot offhand to test the shooter.

 

[MovedWest]

I say if you are testing the accuracy of a load, you should use sandbags and eliminate as much as possible shooter error. Otherwise how do I know if I goofed or the load is off?

Distances? You must shoot far enough that a slight difference will show up. For me that is 25 yards for pistol, and 100 yards for rifle. If you use that 44 for hunting I would certainly test the loads at 50 yards or more also.

Once you have established a good accurate load, then is the time to shoot offhand to test the shooter.

Lots of good responses, but I think this is what I was looking for. Thanks for all the input and advice. I always get more than I expect here.

-MW

 

[CraigC]

Typically:

25yds for general purpose and open sighted handguns.

50yds for hunting revolvers, scoped or irons, muzzleloaders and iron sighted pistol cartridge rifles.

100yds for everything else.

Unless you're a world class bullseye shooter, there is no way to "test" handgun loads for accuracy anywhere but the bench. Even then, it is much more of a challenge than it is for rifles. For the record, I have seen drastic point of impact changes when going from the bench to offhand shooting. Even more drastic shooting with or without gloves.

I can't see testing a 2" snubby at 25 yds.

Try it, you might be surprised. My 2" model 15 is superbly accurate at 25yds. It's just more challenging to shoot accurately.

 

[LiveLife]

Here's an interesting take on pistol accuracy by Hickok45.

BTW, I am with him on testing accuracy offhand (instead of rest/sand bags) as it is how the pistol will be shot during actual SD/HD shootings. We fight like we train. Since I will never shoot anyone or match targets from a rest/sand bag, I prefer to practice offhand whether determining accuracy shot groups or fast draw range practice for matches.

 

[Shoot66]

Handgun? At least 25y, preferably 50y. I understand the difference between ammo/specific load-combo accuracy and sights adjustment for bench/prone/off hand standing use. Not every load which is accurate at 25y is also accurate at 50 or more.

 

[Pete D.]

testing

Good thread.
Out of the box, I always have taken a few shots at a 50 foot target when I have gotten a new handgun. The point being to see whether the gun needs further work. They almost always do. I did, however, acquire a Springfield Armory "loaded" 1911 that shot marvelously well at 25 yards and has needed no adjustment. I have never felt the need to bench the gun.
Normally, I test handguns at 50 feet (indoor range - gallery distance) or at 25 yards (outdoor range). Then I move to 50 yards.
For hunting guns, the distances are 50 and 75 yards.
Snubbies - I don't accuracy test these pistols the same way. I certainly don't bench them. I point the gun at a target about five to seven yards away and shoot a cylinder's worth. That tells me all I need to know about where the gun shoots.
Rifles get bore sighted and then tested at 100 and 200 yards.
Shotguns get patterned at 30 yards - 40 is recommended but 30 is all I have and my shots are never more than that.
Pete

 

[Redneck with a 40]

Auto Pistols = 25 yards

Mini-14 = 100 yards

Remmy 700 SPS Tactical .308 = 200 yards

I'm pretty consistent with the Mini at 100 yards, 2-2.5" (5) shot groups. My best ever was 1.5"

The Remmy will hold 2" at 200 yards, 5 shots, my handloads.

My XD will shoot a ragged hole at 25 yards all day long.

 

[CraigC]

I am with him on testing accuracy offhand (instead of rest/sand bags) as it is how the pistol will be shot during actual SD/HD shootings. We fight like we train. Since I will never shoot anyone or match targets from a rest/sand bag, I prefer to practice offhand whether determining accuracy shot groups or fast draw range practice for matches.

You should obviously practice from various shooting positions, none of which include a shooting bench and sandbags. However, the ONLY way to test loads for accuracy is to remove all shooter-related error possible and that means a bench and sandbags. Here's an important quote from his video:

"I'm talking about "practical," defensive pistol accuracy here."

Hickok is not talking about raw accuracy potential and load testing, he's talking about the practical difference in actually "hitting". In other words, the shooter-related factors. As he suggests, if the guns were clamped into a Ransom rest you WOULD see the difference. That's what we're talking about when we discuss testing guns and loads from the bench. It's the only way to determine what he refers to as "inherent" or "mechanical" accuracy. His statements about the S&W 29 being "about the same" as the service autos suggests to me that he has never benched a handgun in his life. He's shooting at a two foot steel target, of course he's not gonna see a difference. Which is fine for self defense shooting. Not so good when you're talking about hunting or serious sixgun work. He's shooting at gongs, I'm seeing which load combination will give me two inch groups at 50yds.

 

[LiveLife]

However, the ONLY way to test loads for accuracy is to remove all shooter-related error possible and that means a bench and sandbags.

CraigC, yes I agree with you about determining "mechanical" accuracy and stated on post #14,

"I believe shooting from rest/sand bags will test "absolute technical" accuracy, but not actual practical/tactical shooting accuracy. The pure empirical accuracy attained from rest/sand bag shooting is nice to show to your friends, but it's shot groups off hand (my hands) that will impress me."

But the ONLY way to test how your loads will shoot out of your pistol/hands is to shoot them off hand, which I believe is more pertinent. Even though you determined the "mechanical" accuracy of your pistol, you will most likely end up shooting your pistol off hand most of the times for plinking, range practice, match shooting and SD/HD training.

When I first started match shooting 15 years ago, I used to test my shot groups from sand bags at 15/25 yards. With my 1911, I got 1.25" average shot groups at 25 yards. Of course, my off hand shot groups were much larger. The shooting/reloading mentor who taught me stated the "mechanical" accuracy of a pistol is nice to know, but won't give you reliable shooting data (SD/HD/match shooting) until you get consistent off hand shot groups (he shot Bullseye/USPSA).

I agree that user input will add variables to the testing of shot groups. This is what I do to address that. I first start at 5 yards and slow/deliberate shots usually produce a single hole or sub 1" shot groups (if I don't, I investigate the cause). Then I incrementally move the target to 7, 10, 15 yards, but only after I am able to produce consistent tight shot groups. This process not only tests the functional accuracy of the load/pistol combination but also "force train" the shooter to continuously eliminate the variables and shoot more consistently as if shot groups are erratic, the causes are investigated (pulling/jerking trigger, etc.). Holes on target don't lie - they reveal what you are doing wrong.

Many shooters tell me they bought their pistols because of certain published shot groups that were particularly small with a certain ammunition (either from ransom rest or pistol rest/sand bags). But I ask them, "How does it shoot in your hands with your choice of ammunition?"

 

[CraigC]

Maybe I'm not making myself clear. Bench testing is just that, testing. It is to test your guns and loads to find the most accurate combination. It is NOT to take the place of real practice. It is merely the first step. I don't view it as "nice to know" but critical. So I will know without doubt what my gun will do at a given distance, with a given load. This is also so that I know that when the metal hits the meat, I'm using the most accurate, most appropriate load possible. This is my baseline. I treat them the same as rifles. Therefore I will know where I stand when I shoot offhand, which is a test of the shooter.

If you do not bench test, how do you know what part of your 4" offhand groups is the gun and what part is the shooter? You don't.

 

[Pete D.]

testing

I have to say that I agree very strongly with Craig C. about the purpose of testing a gun/ammo combination from the bench.
Once I have determined what ammo a particular firearm shoots the best and once that it is zeroed, then I stand up and practice with the knowledge that if I am not shooting Xs, it is because of me, not the gun nor the ammo.
That question

How does it shoot in your hands with your choice of ammunition

places the emphasis on the gun rather than the shooter. Inherent in that question is the implication that if another person picks up the gun, it may shoot differently. That is just not so. Another shooter may get different results but that is not because the gun changed.
Effectively it is not so much how well it shoots but how well do you shoot it. That is not just playing with words. The important point is how well does the person shoot the gun...bench testing will already have determined how well the gun shoots
Pete

 

[CraigC]

Exactly!