ATF approving SBR manufacture?

[cpileri]

I know the ATF is no longer approving making civilian full autos, but suppressors and AOW's seem to get approval.

Are they approving SBR 'manufacture' - as in a guy wants to cut his rifle down past 16"?

Is this a form 1? or some other form?

anyone know of a recent approval? 200 bucks is alot of waste if they are not approving right now.

C-

 

[Darkside]

If YOU are doing the cutting of the barrel then I beleive you are the manufacture. This means application should be on a Form 1. If it is a transfer of a already shortened rifle you would use the application Form 4.

I submitted my Form 1 in October. The application must have been cursed. My first examiner was fired(so I am told). My second examiner was "releived of her duties in referance to my serial number". :banghead:

After a couple calls to my examiners' supervisor at the NFA, I was told that my Form 1 was approved and in the mail back to me, for my AR15 SBR.

Long story short. Yes the are approving SBR applications.

Darkside

 

[cpileri]

Cool. Thanks.
Yes, i am thinking of doing the cutting, but 200 bucks is holding me back.

Also, is it the rifles RECEIVER or the BARREL itself that is the NFA item? To look at it another way, can you move that shortened barrel to any receiver you want, like a threaded supressor, or is the receiver now the only one that can legally accept the chopped barrel?

If its the barrel, do I have to engrave a serial number on it? I assume so, but just want to be sure.

Darkside, do you mind me asking why a SBR over an AR-pistol? was it so that a stock could be added legally? To me, that seems the only advantage of an SBR over a virgin receiver and making a "long barreled pistol". Just curious.

Anyone have a working link directly to the form1?

Thanks again,
C-

 

[boofus]

www.titleii.com
has adobe versions of all the forms.

I heard the NFA branch recently moved from DC to West Virginia, so all approvals are going very slow. Some guys on another forum submitted Form 1s last November and just got their approved forms back.

 

[cpileri]

experienced form-filler-outers?

Anyone know of a dealer or other person who is experienced in and will help me properly fill out the form, get fingerprinted, and otherwise be perfectly set up to turn the forms in in the area from Waco down to Austin, TX?
Or from say Temple to Lampassas, TX?
I am in Fort Hood.
Also, anyone know the most accessible chief LEO to go to for the sign-off in the same area?

Thanks,
C-

 

[Darkside]

The receiver is the registered part. That receiver is the only receiver that can have the short barrel attached to it.

My understanding is that the ATF frowns on the possession of more than one short barrel and the possession of any other firearms that can accept the short barrel. I think they call it "intent to construct".

"Why the SBR?" I dislike the AR pistols. Kinda like the HK Sp89. It's not a "pistol"(too blasted heavy and difficult to shoot fast and accurately) and it does not have a stock to steady it for accurate shooting.

The second reason and this is a personal one. Our county sheriff was in office as a "lame duck" He would sign off on anything you put in front of him. I had some insight into the "attitude" of the incomming sheriff in reguards to the LEO sign off.(he would not sign) I had a very short window to get this application signed off on. It was a now or nothing decision if I was to ever get an SBR.

Go to the ATF websight and get the current form there. I used one of the forms floating around the web and was told that it was "Obsolete" it almost caused the ATF to reject my application.

Darkside

 

[ScottsGT]

I had some insight into the "attitude" of the incomming sheriff in reguards to the LEO sign off.(he would not sign) I had a very short window to get this application signed off on.

We had a similar situation here in our county where the Sheriff would not sign off. Somebody brought this to the attention of the SC Attorney General. He informed the Sheriff that it was not optional and he has to sign them. You are not asking the Sheriff for permission, but letting him know you are acquiring the weapon. Might contact your AG if the new county clown refuses future applications.

 

[Darkmind]

It's too bad Michigan as a state does not allow bbls under 16''. I'm building up an AR in 9mm and I would love to have a 10.5'' or shorter bbl on it.

 

[cpileri]

intent to construct

Well, I know that at least regarding full autos and silencers, you have to be careful with parts. With FA, it has been discussed often that posession at the same time of an 80% receiver, receiver blueprints, and a demilled parts kit is evidence of intent to manufacture. With suppressors, posession of any part, even a single spare baffle, is possession of a whole new NFA item.
But i haven't heard anything about SBR's.

What about all those folks who own an AR pistol, and also several AR rifles? The pistol upper can go on the rifle, right? Are they busted just for owning both?

Same with the AK pistols: a guy who owns regular AK's along with his AK pistol can switch out the woodwork (assuming correct rear trunion, I guess). Is he asking for trouble?

Or the Contender/Encore people who own both pistol and rifle receivers and barrels. That 14-inch barrel can go on the rifle receiver can't it? Any trouble there even though he hasn't attached any pistol barrels to rifle receivers?

Anyone know FOR SURE? I know with the ATF and NFA it is 'better safe than sorry' but does anyone have any real info or court cases on it regarding SBR's and extra barrels and receivers or whatever?

Yeah, that would be important to know.

Change gears: OK, so its the integral suppressor barrels that are registered separately and can be moved around from rifle to rifle, yes?

C-

 

[444]

You need to go to AR15.com. Click on AR15 forums,then click on M16/Full Auto.
That board has the answers to all your questions. They have actual ATF rulings and opinions of your questions. They have a sticky at the top about SBRs and filling out a form 1.

The only problem is that AR15.com seems to be off the air right now.

A suppressor is the registered item. It isn't the gun or the barrel, it is the suppressor.
With a machine gun or an SBR, it is the receiver that is the registered item.
I own a Ruger 10/22 barrel with an integral suppressor. I can unscrew that barrel and put it on a different 10/22 action if I so desire and it is perfectly legal. I have a integrally suppressed Ruger Mk. II. I can take that top end and put it on another Mk.II frame if there was some reason to do so and it is legal.
If I owned a registered M16 receiver, I could put any upper on it that I want: the receiver is the machine gun. If I owned a registered lightening link or a drop in auto sear, I could put that in any AR15 that I wanted, making it full auto because the link or the DIAS is the machine gun, not the Ar15.
Clear as mud ?

 

[Darkside]

444 is correct about AR15.com it is the motherload of ARF info.

I just can't get to it from work.

Darkside

 

[Darkmind]

What about all those folks who own an AR pistol, and also several AR rifles? The pistol upper can go on the rifle, right? Are they busted just for owning both?

An AR pistol upper will not fit on an AR rifle lower. The takedown pins and holes on truly dedicated AR pistol uppers and lowers are just a little different. Enough so that you can't get them to fit right and they wont line up if your trying to put an AR pistol upper to a AR rifle lower.
Remember, to have an AR pistol the lower has to be a dedicated pistol lower, if you use a run of the mill rifle lower to build an AR pistol in the eyes of the ATF you are building a SBR and not a pistol.

If I owned a registered M16 receiver, I could put any upper on it that I want: the receiver is the machine gun. If I owned a registered lightening link or a drop in auto sear, I could put that in any AR15 that I wanted, making it full auto because the link or the DIAS is the machine gun, not the Ar15.

I need to check on that, last I talked with the ATF they said once a machine gun always a machine gun reguardless if the sear has been moved to a different weapon.

 

[444]

"I need to check on that, last I talked with the ATF they said once a machine gun always a machine gun reguardless if the sear has been moved to a different weapon."

But your error is in considering the gun to be the machine gun, it isn't. The DIAS or the Link is the machine gun. The gun is just another AR15. You drop in the link, the gun shoots full auto, but the link is the machine gun, not the rifle. "Once a machine gun, always a machine gun"; The gun was never a machine gun.
Obviously this doesn't apply to a registered receiver, only to a lightening link or a drop in auto sear.