Making a firearm from scratch - Legality.

[YoungPatriot]

Hi everyone.
This is my first post here, but I've lurked around a bit before registering.
Just in the few weeks I've lurked here, I've already learned a good bit of new information. This community looks great and extremely helpful too.

I was wondering if anyone here could help me with a project I'd like to work on.
A few months ago I was looking into the legality of building a firearm.
I came across this on the ATF website

"With certain exceptions a firearm may be made by a non-licensee provided it is not for sale and the maker is not prohibited from possessing firearms. However, a person is prohibited from assembling a non-sporting semi-automatic rifle or non-sporting shotgun from imported parts. In addition, the making of an NFA firearm requires a tax payment and approval by ATF. An application to make a machine gun will not be approved unless documentation is submitted showing that the firearm is being made for a Federal or State agency."
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/general.html#gca-manufacturing

I'm looking into constructing a firearm, not from a kit, but from scratch, making the parts from common supplies from Lowes, Home Depot, etc.
I was wondering if there was anything against making your own parts and them assembling them into a firearm.
What I plan to build is similar to projects in books like Expedient Homemade Firearms, however it would be semi-automatic, as well as operate on a closed bolt and would comply with all other ATF regulations.

I've used several firearms before, and my dad has put together custom ones before, however this would be the first one that I've owned myself.
I'm currently 18, allowed to possess firearms, and have never been arrested before. I've been looking into blueprints and projects from some different book series for a few months now and have an idea of what I'd like to do.

Has anyone here done that kind of thing, or know anyone who has?
Is constructing one from absolute scratch, not pre-made parts/kits from manufacturers, allowed by the ATF?
Also, I was wondering if any type of forms would need to be submitted to construct it. I know with construction of suppressors you not only have to pay the tax stamp, but also fill out a form and have the design approved. (At least, I read it on a forum somewhere..) Are there any requirements like that for the construction of a non-nfa firearm?
I'm assuming it would need a serial number as well as the creator's name stamped onto the firearm, correct?
The firearm would comply with all their regulations, proper barrel length, not full auto, operate on a closed bolt, etc.
(I haven't checked local laws yet, however I plan to do so withing the next few days. If I do work on this, I don't see if happening over-night, but more-so a project over a few days/weeks.)

Any advice/help/comment/concerns/criticisms are appreciated.
Thanks in advance for the advice/help.
(My apologies if I posted in the wrong area of the forum. I'm mainly just wondering a bit more about the legal aspects of this, and not actual creation of it. I figured that the legal area of the forum would be more suiting than the gun-smithing section or others.)

 

[Thefabulousfink]

Here's a quck response that doesn't go nearly into the depth required for this subject, but the short answers are these:

1. Yes is it legal to build your own gun form scratch as long as you follow the ATF's rules.

2. the materials that you can buy at Home Depot would BE UNSAFE IN A FIREARM.

Anything larger than a .22 is going to have more pressure than the pipes or metal that home depot sells can handle. Modern guns require precision fitting parts machined out of quality steel. It can be done at home, but you need to be a qualified machinest.

Blackpowder guns, however are a lot lower power. Dixie gun works and Track of the Wolf both sell blackpowder gun kits that require lots of work, but less heavy tools. They also have less legal restrictions.

 

[Kendal Black]

There is a lot of home armorer BS on the internet, and in cheaply printed books, but I would suggest you consider the reliability of the information. If you build a plumbing gun, at least fire it for the first time by tying it to a tree, tying a string to the trigger, TAKE COVER and then pull the string.

The letter of the law is as you say. If it were a real problem, people making functional weapons for themselves out of everyday stuff, the law would not read like that; the feds would be on it like flies.

At the very least, take a simple and safe real life firearm for your example and exactly reproduce it at home. Either a Savage single shot .22 or a Harrington & Richardson shotgun would be a place to start.

 

[YoungPatriot]

Kendal:
What you were saying about attempting to reconstruct a simple already existing firearm is what I was wanting to do, but to make the receiver, trigger mechanism and other parts myself.
I also wouldn't really feel comfortable with going into any type of high calibers, at least not with non professionally made materials. I'd like to stay with .22 short or .22lr. I couldn't really trust plain old steel piping with a large caliber, for the same reason Thefabulousfink mentioned about there being too much pressure.
The string thing, I had already thought that out. I like having all my fingers.

So I guessing since I've cleared up and understand the federal laws on the subject, what is left for me would be investigating state and local laws, making a decision on what to build, and finding a long roll of kite string in the garage.

I was considering a 22 bolt action, such as the Savage you suggested.
As for machining and a stock, I do have easy access to some metal working and wood working machinery in my dad's home workshop.

 

[Kendal Black]

I have a Stevens (later Savage) single shot .22 right here as I speak. I examined it before I answered. The barrel is not steel tubing such as you would find at Lowe's. For one thing, barrel has no side seam. It is a drilled through rod--drilled lengthwise. Not a lot of home workshops can do that.

I don't want to discourage you. I may be talking to the next genius in gun design, the new Sam Colt. But remember that even Mauser, the inventor of the best rifle ever made, lost an eye while shooting something dumb he thought up. Remember the tree. Remember the string.

Back to the legalities question. I have once in my life contacted the BATFE, to ask whether what I was doing was inside the fence, and I found them polite and knowledgeable in the technical branch. Be sure you ask for the technical branch of the department; they are okay guys.

 

[YoungPatriot]

I plan on calling the BATFE sometime this weekend and checking again that it's all legal where I live, and that everything is alright and in the clear.
Next to loosing a finger, or an eye, getting into trouble would be the last thing I'd like to happen.
It's nice to hear they're more friendly than the old man at the DMV here.

I've been thinking about either buying an actual barrel and a few other parts, or contacting a local gunsmith to construct one and do the rifling.
I have access to make something basic, but when it comes to some parts of it, especially the barrel, would be pretty crude and, quite frankly, ****.
I'm considering buying a few parts, or maybe talking to some local gunsmiths about it and possibly paying for drilling and rifling of a barrel.

I've done a bit of reading on wwwhomegunsmith.com and learned a bit more about it. I was really surprised to see what some of the users had made without cnc machines and other heavy, specialty machinery. Then again, I suppose they've been doing this for a while, and know much more about what they're doing.

For now, I suppose I'll take it very slow, do more homework on it, keep it simple, and I'll see where I get from there.

Once I further determine the legality of it locally, and if it allows this, I'll post some updates on the project once I get started if anyone here is interested in it.

Thanks for all the replies and advice.

 

[AlexanderA]

Making a (presumably safe and effective) firearm from scratch at home just isn't cost-effective. You would need thousands of dollars of machine tools -- for example, how else would you bore and rifle a barrel? Plus, you would have to have the required machinist skills. Buying parts and putting it together at home is doable -- making it entirely from scratch isn't. Doing this may be legal, but it isn't practical.

 

[Safetychain]

YoungPatriot, I understand you. I like to make things just to see if I can. It's a hobby of mine that has kept me playing for most of my life. I've made simple single-shot guns, spearguns and rail guns, my own centerfire primers (percussion and piesoelectric), gunpowder (guncotton/nitrocellulose), brass sorters and tumblers, ; and this is only the gun field. I have plenty of other other hobbies too. I do it not to make something cheaper but just to prove I can do it. Its fun and very satisfying. I understand your desire to be within the law and that is a good thing but if you made that proverbial nuclear bomb, as long as you do it by yourself, congratulate yourself and then take it back apart and feel satisfied that you could do it, so whats so bad about breaking that law? As long as one hurts no one and with no intent to hurt anyone, I like to feel that's what living free is all about and even the thought police shouldn't bother you. There are different types of rifling in barrels and some are not as difficult to do at home with simple equipment as most think. How great or complicated was the rifling equipment being used in the 1800's? Go for it, man, and have fun doing it. However, the string behind the tree is a good idea that I used also. And not only for the the first try.

 

[ccsniper]

I once had a 410 single shot shotgun that was made using 3/8" pipe. Looked like an ugly 410 bolt gun. Stock was an old benjamin air rifle stock and the bolt was hand crafted using God knows what. Looked like crap but it shot a 3" pattern at 20 yards. The barrel was right at 31". My Grandpa made it back in the 70's and used it for squirrel and rabbit. Don't know what happened to it. It just wasn't in his closet one day.

 

[barnetmill]

I am not saying it is safe. IIRC Traditionally it is shotguns that made by guerrilla types in places like the phillippines. The diagrams that I have seen involve two lengths of pipe. One outer pipe slides over the other and serves as the receiver and has a firing pin like protrusion on its capped end. The inner pipe or barrel (probably 3/4" water pipe) contains the shell and is slammed backwards against the firing pine of the outer receiver pipe. Not a gun that I would want to have. The paliuntod, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improvised_firearm

 

[jman74]

I'm sure it could be done at home. Depends on the tooling you have access to. My father is a retired machinist/tool+die maker that has a decent shop in garage (mill, 40-inch lathe,etc...), so I'm sure it could be done. I'd mostly be concerned about the barrel. Manufactured barrels are produced using means that have been proven and tested with hopefully strict quality control. I'd want to be REAL confident in my ability before I attempted that.

 

[jmorris]

I have built a few my self, from silencers (considered a firearm by the NFA branch of the BATFE) up to a 50 BMG. As above, its legal as long as you follow the rules. Before I started my first, I called the local BATFE office and had them send me the book of laws. If your firearm is going to turn out to be an NFA short barreled rifle, shotgun or have a supressor on it you will need to fill out the Form 1(s) and have them approved BEFORE you start building.

I'll also agree that homedepot/lowes does not stock any materials that would be worth my time to build a firearm out of. Even if your building a 22, why make waist time cobbling one out of crap when you could make a nice one?