ATF Lies About Guns In Mexico...What a Surprise

[MD_Willington]

Just as bp said above;
promote the ever-loving snot out of this story

Take it upon your self to use this story as a giant middle finger pointed at the MSM lies about the 90% !

 

[az_imuth]

Maybe I missed something in the article, but couldn't a large portion of that 17% include weapons that originated from US government arsenals? The article stated that some of the weapons in Mexico were from earlier US operations in Central America as well as weapons given to the Mexican Army. I didn't see where these were omitted from the 17%.

 

[Titan6]

But why would Secretary Clinton lie? I don't understand. Also I noticed that MSNBC and other (non-fox) agencies are still quoting the 90% (now sometimes 95%) in articles that came out today. They also don't have anything about the 90% number being wrong. There must be some vast right wing conspiracy to make up lies about the number of guns shipped South in order to make the government lose creditability. Somebody needs to tell me what to do......!

 

[Carl]

Glenn Beck is on in 3 minutes on Fox News Channel. I know he's going to mention it.

 

[ACORN]

And you're suprised by this??

 

[Titan6]

Glenn Beck is on in 3 minutes on Fox News Channel. I know he's going to mention it.

ahhh... "Demagogues Are Us".....

 

[Zoogster]

Maybe I missed something in the article, but couldn't a large portion of that 17% include weapons that originated from US government arsenals? The article stated that some of the weapons in Mexico were from earlier US operations in Central America as well as weapons given to the Mexican Army. I didn't see where these were omitted from the 17%.

I was going to point specifics of that out as well but don't have the numbers regarding that 17% to begin saying such things.

However the US government ships a lot of US ARs to the Mexican Government, and those would in fact have originated in the US.
Most of the police in Mexico use US AR's that thier government purchases from the US.
For example here is some pictures of a story just released today:

Where do you think those firearms would successfuly trace back to if some were diverted to criminal elements and then recovered by LEO?

The USA.

The cartels contain a lot of former police and military, and have access to any hardware available to the Mexican Government.

That said with the military taking over towns and cities and cartels taking over towns and cities and Authoritarian rule commonplace down there I would not be surprised that some actual regular citizens would do all they can to aquire capable arms.
We are talking about a corrupt government. Many tourists can tell you about being pressured into LEO bribes in Mexico, especialy away from the tourist friendly resort towns. I have seen them sieze someone's vehicle for absolutely no legal reason just to extort a bribe.
Having LEO outfited for war down there and checkpoints and soldiers on the streets is not much better than the cartels themselves.
Consider the very intent of the 2nd Amendment here.

 

[Gungnir]

I actually pinged MSNBC about this (I have a line in to MSNBC), although it's an AP feed article so they don't own the content.

The correction that I requested they post is that 90% of traced firearms were of US origin. However the ATF do not state how many of the total recovered arms were traced since the ATF and Mexico have not released those figures and does even that does not cover the possibility of some of those traceable firearms being Military Surplus sold to the Mexican Military and Law Enforcement, or formerly US military gained by other means. It may work or may not, we'll see.

 

[nachosgrande]

I'm not sure I understand. So what if 100% of guns are from the US? What does that have to do with my right to own guns?

 

[Zundfolge]

Anyone else think its cool that John Lott's son is named Maxim?

 

[legaleagle_45]

If you carefully read the fox article, it says that they only asked the BATF&E to try to trace weapons that had U.S. markings, and, of those that were traceable, 90% of those guns with U.S. markings were (GASP!) from the U.S.!

Yep, sorta like asserting that 90% of all autombiles that are involved in accidents, and that are succesfully traced, are owned by people living in Oregon"... which would be true if the trace was limited to only those vehicles involved in accidents which also happen to have Oregon license plates....

Damn Oregon drivers... I always new they were a dangerous lot.

 

[Zoogster]

nachosgrande said:

I'm not sure I understand. So what if 100% of guns are from the US? What does that have to do with my right to own guns?

The same reason books in the US should be banned if they cause any problems in other nations.
The same reason the media should be censored if thier stories might cause a disturbance when viewed someplace like China.
We need to remove American rights to avoid any consequences freedom in our nation might have on the world.
Very important meetings will verify this.
The UN will verify this.
The European Union will verify this.
Most of the media will verify this.
The politicians of oppressive nations around the world will verify this.
Several of our politicians feel that way.

If only one life can be saved then the destruction of any or all rights or freedoms is worth it!
Just don't ask any descendants of those who died fighting for those rights, they may be biased.

 

[Deanimator]

An organization not only whose OFFICIAL policy was for its employees to lie under oath, but which produced an OFFICIAL training video for its employees on HOW to lie under oath, and this somehow surprises you???

 

[nachosgrande]

"If only one life can be saved then the destruction of any or all rights or freedoms is worth it!
Just don't ask any descendants of those who died fighting for those rights, they may be biased."

Very well put.

 

[AllAmerican]

They have to reverse what they said because its been revealed that the US Gov is the source of the weapons in question.

 

[ratcobob]

They seem to have gone to using facts instead of Hillary's stats

I saw Fox news on cable around noon today tho couldn't hear the story. Underneath the guy with the AK hanging on his neck the text was something like 'False: 90% of guns in Mexico come from the U.S.' and another about how the guns were mostly military grade and that they come from South America. There was another line about confiscating over 2000 hand grenades, Maybe they're finally getting to the truth instead of Billary's bogus statistics.

 

[Mandolin]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/mar/22/drug-cartels-guns-from-beyond-border/

Mexico estimates 2000 guns a day enter from the US. Thats what, 700,000 a year? What idiots.

 

[Gunnerpalace]

well some seem to think it was the ATF who is primarily to blame. I don't see how that is so based on the news report.

Some people here love to bash them.

The fact of the matter is the data the ATF used for the trace (and whatever percent they got depending on how the media skewed it) came from the MEXICAN authorities which is not the bastion of trustworthiness. The fact is maybe 10% of the guns were made here while the other 90% came from China, and the Mexican government (Norinco AK's and G3's) I even been hearing rumors of Russian involvement, drug money that's how all this rides.

 

[noskilz]

Quote:
well some seem to think it was the ATF who is primarily to blame. I don't see how that is so based on the news report.
Some people here love to bash them.

Jeez, please read the article. No one is wrongly bashing the ATF. Their Assistant Director TESTIFIED before Congress and blatantly lied. [He should get the same treatment as others who lie to Congress under oath.] Yes, I think there's good cause for the ATF to be primarily to blame. :banghead:

 

[Gunnerpalace]

If you carefully read the fox article, it says that they only asked the BATF&E to try to trace weapons that had U.S. markings, and, of those that were traceable, 90% of those guns with U.S. markings were (GASP!) from the U.S.!

....

 

[Onmilo]

Associated press is also misquoting the actual figures too.
They claim that 95% of the recovered drug crime weapons can be traced back to the U.S. of A. while what the B.A.T.F.E. report indicated was that 17% of ALL the guns in Mexico can be traced back to U.S. of A. sources and 90% of the recovered drug crime guns CANNOT be traced to any direct source though many oif the weapons can be sourced to places such as Columbia, Israel, and, gasp, China.

Oh, the Mexican officials have reported in the press that a total of EIGHT .50 caliber rifles, manufacturer not stated, have been recovered from drug cartel related stash locations and that only once, during the assassination of a Mexican police official suspected of having ties with one of the cartels, was one of these weapons actually used in a drug related homicide.
So much for proliferation.

I still want to know what gun shop here is U.S. of A. legally sells grenade launchers, 40mm grenades, hand grenades and RPG-7 rocket launchers and does so on the cheap.
I needs me some of those,,,,,,

 

[wyocarp]

What's next, are we going to find out that 98% of the traceable guns used in mass shootings were originally sold at a gun store?

 

[tbtrout]

This Administration and its drones are going to do and say anything to try and ban guns. They have the bully pulpit and the media to repeat any message. Aside from the story on Fox, I have not heard any other media outlet run the 17% story.

 

[ratcobob]

This A.M. Attorney(LIAR) General Holder says the percentage doesn't matter

Holder says the percentage doesn't matter now that they've been caught in a lie and have gotten the media to parrot the false statistics. A tip of the hat to Fox News for reporting that the numbers are lies and Hillary and Holder are liars.

 

[Landor]

Lie's, only we the people can lie. Politicians do not lie it's called politics.

The bad thing about it is that most of the media knew Hillary was wrong when they quoted her but in it's self was news. So the press git double the news from the same topic. The media is what is ruining this country.