ATF moves goal posts yet again - 80% frames

[12Bravo20]

The ATF has changed their minds yet again on what constitutes a firearm when it comes to striker fired pistols frames. They sent out an open letter today stating the following.

This definition of “readily” applies to each classification of a partially complete frame or receiver under this rule, whether sold alone or as part of a kit; therefore, even without any associated templates, jigs, molds, equipment, tools, instructions, guides, or marketing materials, these partially complete pistol frames are “frames” and “firearms” as defined in the GCA and its implementing regulations.

https://www.atf.gov/news/pr/atf-iss...cation-“frame-or-receiver”-final-rule-certain

So while it was still legal to buy just a frame (without a jig or tools) without having to go through a FFL yesterday, now even just an unfinished frame by itself must now go through a FFL and also have a serial number on it.

 

[Englishmn]

https://ghostgunner.net/zero-percent/

 

[old lady new shooter]

The ATF has changed their minds yet again on what constitutes a firearm when it comes to striker fired pistols frames. They sent out an open letter today stating the following.



https://www.atf.gov/news/pr/atf-iss...cation-“frame-or-receiver”-final-rule-certain

So while it was still legal to buy just a frame (without a jig or tools) without having to go through a FFL yesterday, now even just an unfinished frame by itself must now go through a FFL and also have a serial number on it.

I wonder if this was in response to the latest filing by the FPC in the case... Braden at Langley Outdoors reads it aloud and the argument is brilliant: They said since the ATF said an unfinished lower is not a firearm unless it is sold with instructions how to make it into a firearm, so really what they are criminalizing is SPEECH, forbidden under the 1st Amendment.

Here's the video:


That said, I don't see how an unfinished frame or receiver can be classified as a firearm if it can't shoot anything.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

Wonder why they specified striker fired ones?

 

[caribou]

Interesting.
I thought they just got rid of the "Intent" when it came to less than 80% receivers, like having a parts set with Full auto parts and a 79% or whatever receiver.

Im pretty sure this will be struck down, too, as its either a firearm or it is not.
Instructions can be googled, so what would they say if you had no paper instructions, but a smartphone? What if you had the knowledge and the 80% frame.

 

[AlexanderA]

Is this a different rule that applies to "striker-fired pistols" and not to AR-15 lower receivers?

 

[DeepSouth]

That said, I don't see how an unfinished frame or receiver can be classified as a firearm if it can't shoot anything.

The same way an auto sear, or a bump stock can be a machine gun. No chamber, barrel, or firing pin needed. You can’t apply logic or reason to gun laws!

 

[kwguy]

There can be no understanding when one tries to apply logic to a clown show.

it’s Occam’s razor, the simplest explanation is the easiest one:

Their only concern is trying to stifle our 2A rights any way they can get away with, by using the power of the bureaucratic, bullying pen, as far as the confines of their office as they can get away with. That’s it. They aren’t trying to apply any logic or reason. They are just smithing, twisting, and creating words into regs to end gun rights.

Only when that is understood, will it make sense.

 

[hso]

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regul...en-letter-impact-final-rule-2021-05f/download

 

[Speedo66]

Glock must be happy, most were imitations of their design.

 

[jmorris]

You can’t apply logic or reason to gun laws!

Sure you can, you just have to be an antigun liberal. Guns= bad want them all gone. Except for the ones my security and I own, the rest of you subjects should call 911 and hope for the best…

I figure they will have to start focusing more on ammunition. Another 20 years or so and anyone will be able to print a decently functional firearm, the technology just needs to get cheaper and it will over time.

 

[kwguy]

Sure you can, you just have to be an antigun liberal. Guns= bad want them all gone. Except for the ones my security and I own, the rest of you subjects should call 911 and hope for the best…

I figure they will have to start focusing more on ammunition. Another 20 years or so and anyone will be able to print a decently functional firearm, the technology just need to get cheaper and it will over time.

Exactly

 

[hso]

It is reasonable to assume that until the ATF puts anything in the Federal Register that they'll change wording to fit the shifting forces between the current Administration and the public/representatives of the public.

That is then followed by the inevitable lawsuits that might fully or partly negate that wording based on court ruling.

In the 2A community we understand that the struggle is never over and that no single contest is concluded until the courts have their say as we oppose unconstitutional efforts to infringe on the 2A.

 

[N555]

Hahaha 80% are so 2016. We 3d print our guns now.

 

[AlexanderA]

Their only concern is trying to stifle our 2A rights any way they can get away with, by using the power of the bureaucratic, bullying pen, as far as the confines of their office as they can get away with. That’s it. They aren’t trying to apply any logic or reason. They are just smithing, twisting, and creating words into regs to end gun rights.

It's a two-way game when it comes to guns. The government creates restrictions (whether by law or regulation), the gun community creates workarounds to those restrictions, and then the government comes back and tries to shut down the workarounds. The incomplete-receiver issue is a classic example of that.

 

[rust collector]

Only our tax dollars at work could come up with "partially complete". If something is not complete it is incomplete. "Readily" will always be subjective, and its application will always be subject to the whims of the regulators. That, clearly, is the object of this exercise.

 

[Handshaker]

Pretty soon your aluminum Coors beer can will be considered a pistol lower.

 

[Riomouse911]

Pretty soon your aluminum Coors beer can will be considered a pistol lower.

Shhhhhh! It’s a secret.



Stay safe.

 

[kwguy]

It's a two-way game when it comes to guns. The government creates restrictions (whether by law or regulation), the gun community creates workarounds to those restrictions, and then the government comes back and tries to shut down the workarounds. The incomplete-receiver issue is a classic example of that.

Yup.


How sad that our .gov works so hard to oppress our 2A rights, and we have to contend with and try to work around that idiocracy, all because of the whim and desire of those who just can’t leave citizens alone, and must try to impose their will on others by abusing their .gov positions.

 

[Handshaker]

Its sad we never talk about 1A rights, those are gone now with the new liberal agendas...

 

[CapnMac]

https://ghostgunner.net/zero-percent/

Please be advised this is considered a "drive by" posting, for not including at least some of the text to clarify the content for those who might be concerned about clicking though on links.

The Ghost Gunner 3 Zero Percent kit allows you to mill a complete, mil-spec and unregistered AR-15 receiver from an unformed block of aluminum - from 0%. Just like our 80% kits, this is performed automatically using our Ghost Gunner 3 CNC mill, meaning that you can make a AR-00 today, no machining experience necessary, in the privacy of your own home.

After milling the non-receiver block on the Ghost Gunner 3, your new zero percent receiver is combined with a lower-lower and buffer tower (available for sale or DIY) to complete your AR-00 receiver, which is now ready to be assembled into a full AR just like any other stripped lower.

In 2022, the ATF will attempt to ban the purchase of unserialized 80% lowers. At that time, Ghost Gunner's zero percent receiver will become the only legal and affordable method of making an unregistered metal lower. The age of 80% is ending. The age of zero has begun.

 

[AlexanderA]

Only our tax dollars at work could come up with "partially complete". If something is not complete it is incomplete. "Readily" will always be subjective, and its application will always be subject to the whims of the regulators. That, clearly, is the object of this exercise.

It all goes back to the Gun Control Act of 1968. Here is the relevant language:

(3) The term 'firearm' means (A) any weapon (including a starter
gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel
a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver
of any such weapon; .....
​

That "readily converted" phase has been the subject of controversy ever since. There have been court cases that suggested that something was "readily converted" if it could be made into a workable firearm within 8 hours in a fully-equipped machine shop by a trained machinist. That means, in effect, that anything can be considered a firearm. (And, in a more limited interpretation, that any semiautomatic firearm can be a machine gun, and thus subject to the NFA. The government hasn't yet gone that far, but it could do so at any time.)

That "readily converted" language could be ripe for a Supreme Court challenge, as being violative of the 2nd Amendment. This is the nice, limited, but slam-dunk kind of case that the Supreme Court likes to take.

 

[CapnMac]

Matt is both a Lawyer with practice in firearms and similar civil rights, but is also an FFL.
This is a cogent "read" on the current fracas.

 

[12Bravo20]

Matt is both a Lawyer with practice in firearms and similar civil rights, but is also an FFL.
This is a cogent "read" on the current fracas.

He did a very good job of explaining things that should make it easy for everyone to understand.

 

[Hunter 08]

I struggle to see how they have the legal authority to keep changing their minds? Does Chevron Deference no longer apply to alphabet agencies?