Athletes and Guns

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Autolycus

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Athletes and GunsBy Arty Berko, Steve Delsohn and Lindsay Rovegno
Special to ESPN.com


Houston Astros outfielder Luke Scott slammed an ammo clip into his .45-caliber Glock handgun, assumed the ready position and fired off 10 successive shots in 2.5 seconds, causing shell casings to fly in every direction. The thundering noise of gunshots filled the air and echoed through the trees, briefly disrupting the silence that surrounded his makeshift shooting range on a strip of land just a mile or so from the house he grew up in DeLeon Springs, Fla.

"That's a clip," Scott said matter-of-factly as he looked up, emptied the cartridge from his handgun and slid the weapon into his front pocket.

Scott proceeded to walk up to the target that was blowing in the breeze 10 feet away, the ideal distance for practicing self-defense maneuvers, and pointed to the form of a man that was outlined on the target. With a bull's-eye on its chest to highlight the kill zone, Scott began to count the bullet holes that were on target: "There's one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine ..." He stopped to chuckle then said, "That's a poor soul right there.



ESPN
Luke Scott believes guns are necessary for the safety of athletes."An athlete gets paid a lot of money," he said. "And someone who is after that, a thief, a mugger or someone who steals from people, they are taking a chance with the law that if they get caught, they are going to jail or face some other problem."

With a broad smile, he added, "In my case, you are going to get shot."

Scott, who was called up from the minors in July, batted .336 with 10 home runs in an impressive rookie season with the Astros. He is also one of the many athletes who carry a gun.

"How do you combat a man with a firearm?" Scott asked. "You don't combat him with a golf club, baseball bat or a knife. You combat him with another firearm."

Scott has a license to carry a concealed weapon and claims he carries his gun with him almost everywhere, always wanting to be prepared.

"I'll put this like that…" Scott said. He picked his gun up off the table, placed it in his back pocket and made sure his shirt wasn't tucked into his pants, covering up the gun. He did a quick spin with his arms in the air and said, "You can't see it."

Scott has never been in trouble with the law, but the list of professional athletes who either have been charged or arrested for gun-related crimes is long. The combination of athletes and guns increasingly has become a volatile mixture.



Outside the Lines



"Outside the Lines" (ESPN, Sunday 9:30 a.m. ET) takes a look at athletes and guns. For more, click here.









Many incidents indicate that athletes rely on firearms for self-protection or as a means to resolve an altercation. But estimates on how many professional athletes carry guns, legally or illegally, vary. By Scott's estimation, as many as 20 percent of Major League Baseball players carry concealed weapons, and more than 50 percent own some type of gun.

Roger Renrick is familiar with the prevalence of guns among professional athletes. A former Boston police officer, Renrick is now a bodyguard who has worked for Paul Pierce, Antoine Walker and Jalen Rose. Renrick describes gun ownership among NBA players as "very common."



ESPN
Karl Malone is a proponent of the right to bear arms and was a spokesman for the NRA."I would probably say close to 60 percent," he said.

New England Patriots wide receiver Jabar Gaffney, a gun owner himself, said he thinks 90 percent of NFL players have firearms.

"Lots of guys I know have weapons either in their house or, in places where you can carry it, they have a permit to carry it," Gaffney said.

Some athletes own guns for hunting, but most athletes who carry guns do so for self-protection.

Scott recounted a time when he was thankful he was prepared, a late night when he was at a gas station in Texas.

"Last year, we had a lot of people come in from New Orleans to Houston shortly after Hurrican Katrina. There were a lot of people walking the streets. I knew my surroundings. I wasn't in that good of a part of town and it was 1 o'clock in the morning," Scott said. "I was by myself and no one was around. I just took my gun and put it right there."

Scott lifted his shirt to reveal his handgun tucked down the front of his pants, the handle slightly visible.

"I saw this guy about 30 feet away. I'm just watching him, minding my own business and, as he approached me, I said, 'Can I help you with something?' Just like that."

Reenacting the incident, Scott demonstrated how he lifted his shirt to reveal his Glock.

"I could see he had something in his hand behind him, and he stopped, and his eyes got real big and he started stuttering, so you know he's up to no good."

Scott raised his arms in mock surrender and continued: "He goes 'I ain't gonna lie man, I ain't gonna lie. All I want is a dollar. I'm gonna go in and buy a beer. I'm not gonna buy food. I'm not gonna buy water. I ain't begging for money for that. I am gonna buy alcohol with it.' Just straight up."

Scott laughed.

"And I looked at him. I said, 'You stay right there.' And I just watched him and I reached in my car to the center console, grabbed a dollar, put it right on the hood and said, 'Go ahead.' And the whole time my hand was on my gun. I didn't fire a shot, didn't even point it at him."

Another armed athlete is former NFL player Jay Williams.

"I carry a gun every day of my life. When I get up in the morning and get dressed it goes on my hip, and when I go to bed at night it comes off my hip," said Williams, who played 10 years in the NFL, most recently with the Miami Dolphins in 2004. "I would rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it."

Williams is now a gun dealer, selling weapons mostly at gun shows and over the Internet. He says some clients are athletes.

As the son of a police officer from Washington, D.C., Williams grew up around firearms. He now belongs to a gun club in North Carolina, where he practices his shooting once a week.

"Athletes are not carrying a gun just to carry a gun and to say, 'Yeah, I carry a gun,'" Williams said. "They are carrying guns to protect and defend themselves."

Williams maintains that the dangers faced by professional athletes are real.

"A lot of criminals, they will look at you like, 'Shoot, let's follow him home. Let's see where he lives. Let's see if we can get him for his jewelry, his watch, his car.' You never know what is out there," Williams said.

As high-profile figures in society, many athletes claim they are targets, citing their wealth and prominence as reasons to be wary.

"Guys are jealous of your stature in life, the fact that you are playing ball, the fact that you are making all this money. The fact that when you go to a club or restaurant, young ladies might flock to you," Williams said. "You might have a disgruntled fan who is pissed off how the team is playing. And maybe he has something to say to you about it. Now, odds are he is not going to come at you in a violent way, but you never know."

Most athletes would agree.

"To the criminal element, anyone with money and fame is a target," Scott said.

"Away from football we try to be regular people, go out and have a good time," Gaffney said. "But eyes are always on us and sometimes people want what you have and they try to get it."

In September 2000, the Boston Celtics' Paul Pierce survived a brutal multiple stabbing at a Boston nightclub. Pierce is now licensed to carry a concealed weapon, but leaves his gun at home and hires a bodyguard when he goes out. Still, Pierce considers himself a target.

"Because I'm recognized from TV, people want what I have," Pierce said. "You have to be careful because people out there in the world are very envious of your life."

But some players don't agree that an athlete's high profile makes them a target in society.

"I don't know what you need a gun for in the NBA," former Utah Jazz star Karl Malone said in disbelief. "What are you doing that you want a gun? Who have you pissed off that you need a gun?" Malone's eyes grew bigger and he shrugged his shoulders, apparently confused at the reasoning behind athletes' fear of being attacked.

Malone is hardly anti-gun. An avid hunter, Malone even has been a spokesman for the National Rifle Association. But he rejects the argument that athletes need guns for protection.

"I think it's just a smoke screen, just an easy reason to say you want a gun," Malone said.

While Malone supports the constitutional right to bear arms, he said he is skeptical of the average athlete's mentality when it comes to firearms.

"Everybody sticks their chest out now when they have a firearm on them," Malone said, mocking the thought process of the common athlete. "'I come up from the hard part of the streets, the mean streets, and I need my gun and all of that?' Come on, please, enough of that already. We're tired of that."

Malone said he wants athletes to realize the dangerous nature of guns.

"Now why do these guys carry guns? Is that the 'cool' thing to do? Well 'cool' gets you dead!" Malone said.

"I know there is probably somebody out there who's carrying a gun because it makes him feel like more of a man," Williams said truthfully. "You don't carry a gun just to make you feel like you are big-time. That's the wrong reason to carry."

For athletes who claim they need a gun for protection, Malone has a suggestion: stop hanging out in places of risk.

"Three a.m.? My goodness gracious, what were you doing out at 3 o'clock in the morning? Who were you with? Where were you at? Do you need a gun to protect you or do you need a babysitter to get you where you need to be all the time so that you don't get in any trouble?" Malone said.

Malone said he thinks the problems stem from the people athletes sometimes keep as company, and the places they spend their free time.

"You can enjoy yourself in nice places, but we're talking about gun stuff," he said. "We need to talk more about where we are going, what we are doing, and who we are hanging out with that lead up to these confrontations."

The Indiana Pacers' Stephen Jackson made headlines and created controversy when he allegedly pulled a gun during a night out with his teammates. On Oct. 6, Jackson got into an early morning fight outside a strip club in Indianapolis. According to police, Jackson fired at least five shots in the air. Jackson and two of his teammates had their guns seized by police, but Jackson was the only player charged. He has since pleaded not guilty to charges of battery, disorderly conduct and felony criminal recklessness. His trial is scheduled for Feb. 12.

"I think what Stephen needs to realize is he put himself in even greater danger by pulling the gun," Malone said. "Because what stops this person from getting on the telephone, turning the corner, telling his buddies to come down -- 'This man got a gun' -- and shoot him?"

Following Jackson's arrest, NBA commissioner David Stern said he would like players to leave their guns at home when they go out in public. "I don't think it's necessary to walk the streets packing a gun," Stern said during his preseason teleconference. "I think it's dangerous for our players.

"It's a pretty widely accepted statistic that if you carry a gun, your chances of being shot by one increase dramatically," Stern said. "We think this is an alarming subject, that although you'll read players saying how they feel safer with guns, in fact those guns actually make them less safe. And it's a real issue."

Pierce said he is not confident that Stern truly comprehends the players' position in this matter.

"I understand David Stern wants to clean up the image, but I think David Stern has to understand where we come from and what some of the players like to do," Pierce said. "I mean, we want to be looked at like normal people, but it's unfortunate that we can't."



ESPN
Malone, at his shooting range, doesn't believe most athletes need guns.Williams said athletes should be able to make their own decision on when and where to carry a gun for protection: "No league has the right to tell you how to defend yourself."

The NBA and NFL have similar policies regarding players and guns, each noting that even if players are licensed to carry a gun, they cannot carry them into stadiums and arenas, practice facilities or on team planes.

Although Major League Baseball has no written policy on players and guns, Scott says he never carried a gun into Minute Maid Park or on Astros'road trips. But everywhere else he goes, Scott says he is packing and prepared.

While Scott, Williams and Malone preach gun safety and advocate caution, all agree they will not hesitate to use their weapon for protection if their lives are in jeopardy.

"I hope I never have to pull my gun on anyone," Williams said. "I don't ever want to have to do that. But I will defend my life and the lives of people in my family."

Said Malone: "Would I use a gun if I had to? Absolutely. If it's my life and your life, and that's what it came down to? A gun? And we can't work it out no other way? Yes. Absolutely. But I hope in my life it never gets to that."

Scott discussed how his gun could save his life.

"If someone comes up in a threatening manner, you can say it with words. After that, action."

Scott reaches into his back pocket, draws his handgun and extends his arm in the ready position.

"This right here is enough to say, 'What do you need?' You better back off."

Steve Delsohn is a reporter; Arty Berko and Lindsay Rovegno are producers for "Outside the Lines." Researcher Shahien Nasiripour contributed to this story.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?id=2691043&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab2pos1
 
seems like most atheletes get in trouble at places that sell alcohol,not guns.
 
The proper response to "athletes and..." almost anything is the same as "any entertainer and..." - "Who cares?"
 
Here's why I care.

It seems to me that if the "role models" of urban youths preach safe and responsible gun ownership rather than gat-brandishing thuggery, we may see a change for the better in the way guns and gun onership are viewed by kids from the city. In the city, most people only associate guns with criminals. I think any news about responsible self-defence is good news, and if it takes big-name players to draw attention to the cause, that is fine by me.
 
It seems to me that if the "role models" of urban youths preach safe and responsible gun ownership rather than gat-brandishing thuggery, we may see a change for the better in the way guns and gun onership are viewed by kids from the city. In the city, most people only associate guns with criminals. I think any news about responsible self-defence is good news, and if it takes big-name players to draw attention to the cause, that is fine by me.

That would be great, now get all the gangsta rappers to do that and we should be ok.

Malone however does have a point and that is "BEWARE of the company you keep"

He's right about the fact that if a lot of these players were more careful of the friends they keep around, they should not have problems, but that is not always going to work and it should still be ok for them to carry weapons. Just as much as it should be ok for me to.
 
Charles Barkley said it pretty well. They paid him to put a basketball through a hoop. "Raise your own children!"
 
"Now why do these guys carry guns? Is that the 'cool' thing to do? Well 'cool' gets you dead!" Malone said.

"I know there is probably somebody out there who's carrying a gun because it makes him feel like more of a man," Williams said truthfully. "You don't carry a gun just to make you feel like you are big-time. That's the wrong reason to carry."

For athletes who claim they need a gun for protection, Malone has a suggestion: stop hanging out in places of risk.

"Three a.m.? My goodness gracious, what were you doing out at 3 o'clock in the morning? Who were you with? Where were you at? Do you need a gun to protect you or do you need a babysitter to get you where you need to be all the time so that you don't get in any trouble?" Malone said.

Malone said he thinks the problems stem from the people athletes sometimes keep as company, and the places they spend their free time.

"You can enjoy yourself in nice places, but we're talking about gun stuff," he said. "We need to talk more about where we are going, what we are doing, and who we are hanging out with that lead up to these confrontations."
Some real wisdom there, even if it is accidental.
 
It's a pretty widely accepted statistic that if you carry a gun, your chances of being shot by one increase dramatically," Stern said. "We think this is an alarming subject, that although you'll read players saying how they feel safer with guns, in fact those guns actually make them less safe. And it's a real issue."


Commissioner Stern needs to provide facts to back up that moronic assertion or learn to keep his comments limited to topics that he can understand, like salary caps. Classic example of shooting off mouth without engaging brain.
 
Pretty sure that flourishing your concealed piece is a big no-no in Texas - especially when the guy hadn't done anything (backing away with his eyes wide is as like to mean "some crazy dude just flash a gun at me!" as "I better not rob this guy.").

Between that, the 'Mexican Carry', the photo showing him practicing without eye protection (whether it was staged or not, if I were the Astros I'd be real anxious about one of my hitters doing it), etc., Mr. Scott might be the dumbest athlete with a gun yet.
 
Yeah that article was a mixed-bag. Would've been nicer if they put one of the outdoor writers on it, I think more justice could've been done, but it wasn't terribly detrimental either. My old roommate actually sent me that when it first got published - looks like the Illinoisians are on top of the ESPN articles.
 
wooderson said:
Pretty sure that flourishing your concealed piece is a big no-no in Texas - especially when the guy hadn't done anything (backing away with his eyes wide is as like to mean "some crazy dude just flash a gun at me!" as "I better not rob this guy.").

Between that, the 'Mexican Carry', the photo showing him practicing without eye protection (whether it was staged or not, if I were the Astros I'd be real anxious about one of my hitters doing it), etc., Mr. Scott might be the dumbest athlete with a gun yet.

Texas laws are fun.

PC §9.04.

Threats as Justifiable Force

The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.

...

PC §9.31.

Self-Defense

(a) Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree he reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force.

Yep, "brandishing" is legal and is not considered deadly force. May not be a smart tactic, but it is legal. Was it justified in Luke Scott's case? Unlikely, but who knows.

As for the eye protection and "mexican carry", not enough information. As noted, the photo could have been staged. Luke Scott may also safely carry his Glock. His demo of carry methods was done on the range, where he may not have had his holsters. It's entirely possible that he uses holsters for carry, but didn't bother when he was illustrating his carry methods to the journalists.
 
what were you doing out at 3 o'clock in the morning?
Okay granted, Hanging out till 3am is more apt to put you at risk than hanging out in the daytime... However, who gets to set the curfew on when people should be allowed hang out till?? There goes that pesky little thing called freedom again! :uhoh:
 
I saw this piece running the other day on ESPN2. It is getting extra rotation given the recent trouble Tank Johnson of the Bears got himself in.

I have to say that watching the vignette gave me the sense that:

1) Karl Malone falls into that half-pro/half-anti gun crowd. Meaning he thinks a handgun, rifle or shotgun for hunting purposes and possible home defense is OK...but he isn't so big on CCW and "assault weapons." He makes many salient points...and I appreciate his criticism of the "thug" mentality. I'm just not sure if he is "all-in" in terms of gun rights.

and

2) The guy from the Astros is not a fantastic ambassador of gun handling and gun ownership. He seemed more interested in impressing the reporter with how tough he was than in demonstrating the value (or philosophical importance) of being an armed citizen. Bad range etiquette, took every opportunity to show how he would "handle" bad guys, and even took his loaded pistol out and put it between his legs while he was driving his pickup and speaking with the reporter.
 
"It's a pretty widely accepted statistic that if you carry a gun, your chances of being shot by one increase dramatically," Stern said. "We think this is an alarming subject, that although you'll read players saying how they feel safer with guns, in fact those guns actually make them less safe. And it's a real issue."

:barf: I've read multiple statistics to the contrary. David Stern needs to do a little research. His "pretty widely accepted statistic" is not backed up by anything I've seen except "common sense" BS spewed by the media and the antis. It's been shown that having a gun prevents more injury to the victim, not vice versa.
 
I saw that on ESPN a few days ago. It was pretty nice to see a mainly pro-gun airing on national TV. They acknowledged the Second Amendment applying to individuals, promoted CCW, and all in all probably did us a bit of good. Thank you ESPN.
 
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/telander/179101,CST-SPT-rick20.article

Warm-hearted team axes cold truth

December 20, 2006
BY RICK TELANDER Sun-Times Columnist
Hey, don't we now know who the greatest, most forgiving, most caring, most huggy-buggy employer in the whole wide world is?
The CHICAGO BEARS!

Yay!

You thought Terry ''Trouble'' Johnson, the Bears dog-baiting, gun-loving, disco-hopping, pot-smoking, arrest-happy defensive tackle was going to get tossed out into the cold, cold world just as Christmas beckons?

Just because he has been arrested three times in the last year?

Just because he has shown the judgment, moral fiber and discipline of a gangsta rapper?

Just because his best friend/ thug/ex-con ''bodyguard'' Willie B. Posey was iced at Ice Bar early Saturday morning while Johnson shimmied on the dance floor?

Just because Johnson is an embarrassment to any parent anywhere who ever has told his or her kids that pro athletes are people to look up to?

No, no, no!

The Bears are not a bottom-line, cold-blooded, billion-dollar company with a monopoly franchise in the NFL.

They are the Salvation Army in hardhats! They are here to help.

''When you're talking about a person's life and their livelihood, you take that very seriously, and you take time,'' Bears general manager Jerry Angelo said at Halas Hall on Tuesday.


It's simple: Defense needs Tank
He was explaining why the Bears, who crow constantly about the ''character'' of their players, didn't dump Johnson immediately after he was arrested for possessing six unlicensed guns Thursday and then went carousing on fatal Friday.
He was explaining why the Bears were going to ''work with'' Johnson, and only suspend him for a single game (if you can call a contest against the Detroit Lions a game).

''Collectively, as an organization -- ownership, coaches, players, myself -- we all agreed the right thing to do was keep Tank and keep working with him,'' Angelo continued.

You may have yearned for the GM to have spoken, just once, the never-uttered truth: This is a crazy game, and we'll stock our team with serial killers if they can help us win.

Critics point to the way the Philadelphia Eagles suspended nutcase-star Terrell Owens in the 2005 season as an example of proper management discipline.

But Owens was a pain in the butt to his own team, to his own quarterback, Donovan McNabb.

''Trouble'' Johnson fills in too nicely for the injured-for-the-year Tommie Harris to be cut adrift.

Indeed, dump him now, and the Bears get nothing in return on their second draft pick of the 2004 draft.

And, by golly, didn't the miserable Tampa Bay Buccaneers move up and down the field Sunday at Soldier Field with no Tank in the trough?

Hmm, it could be the Bears really need this guy for a Super Bowl run.

And he'll do just fine at a position likened to a that of a human fire hydrant, to a man in de-evolution, where the basic instruction is, ''Stay in your gap and hurt somebody!''

It may lightly nauseate folks who watched coach Lovie Smith and Angelo become all stern and cautionary a couple days ago when they clucked mightily about miscreant Johnson and the moral low road.

''There comes a point where you draw the line and you say, no more,'' said Lovie ominously.

But Tank Johnson is nowhere close.

This is about reclamation and soul-saving, not crime and punishment.

This is about love and, as Angelo said, ''silver linings,'' not crime and waivers.

''The playoffs were never brought up,'' said Angelo of the Tank talks.

Apparently, only feelings and ''messages'' and big hugs came up.

It may be sadly cynical to point out, but Posey's untimely demise while ''protecting'' the 300-pound Johnson as the player boogied on the Ice Bar floor may have solved a major PR problem for the Bears.

It makes Johnson a sympathetic figure who is grieving for his ''best friend,'' and it nicely resolves the sticky felon-hanger-on issue.

Oh, did you know the Bears, like every team in the league, care mainly about perception, not reality?

You don't hear a lot of empathy from the Bears when they cut lesser players willy-nilly and end their careers and mess with their lives, do you?

Also, here's how long Tank Johnson's NFL career would have been over -- until one of the 31 remaining teams picked him up.


How nice -- it's all about family
But the point has been made -- and it's good that is has been -- for those of you who still believe Santa Claus slides down chimneys and coaches and GMs don't lie.
Tank Johnson himself stood at the rostrum Thursday and said he was consumed with self-help issues like ''the things I want to accomplish'' and ''decisions'' and ''actions'' and ''improvements'' and ''love'' and ''support.''

If Dr. Phil and Oprah and Bruno Bettelheim could have been there, a group fleshpile of forgiveness and joy might have spontaneously broken out.

''We're doing very good because we're a tight-knit family,'' Johnson said of the Bears and his own sincere self.

''We're not looking for perfection,'' said Angelo. ''We're looking for progress.''

You see, even five unregistered guns is an improvement on six.


Letters to our sports columnists appear Sunday. Send e-mail to [email protected]. Include your full name, hometown and a daytime phone number.
I find myself agreeing with a lot of the authors points.
 
I just remembered this thread, thinking about Texas laws

Yep, "brandishing" is legal and is not considered deadly force.
That's not how I read the law at all. Brandishing is legal in a valid self-defense situation - a black man standing near you is not a self-defense situation.

The man had made no indication that he had harmful intent - Scott made a rather large assumption.

In an urban county (Harris, Dallas, Tarrant, Bexar, Travis, etc.), I would wager a great deal of money that this would not be called a justified brandishing incident by the DA had it been reported.
 
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