Discussion in 'Rallying Point and Range Discussions' started by orangeninja, Mar 11, 2004.
I thought it was rifles, but I'm flexible. Want me to change gears? geegee
no geegee...work harder...do BOTH!!!
I personally do not have a rifle that I would consider being able to be used for a good training day. The cost of training alone would be more than my mere SKS would be.
What type of training have you been looking at regarding rifles.
DonNikmare: A C&R is a curio relic license, you can use it to get an SKS but thats about it for semi- auto rifles. The SKS can be had from 89 to 300.00. Right now unissued Yugos are available at CDNN for 179.00.
"most folks will say it is under sprung and go with a higher lbs. wolf spring which I need to do also"
Yep...you were launching brass right on top of my head 2 lanes over. That thing (donnikmare's 97) needs a new recoil spring badly...
Geegee, do you think an SKS would cut it for the rifle training you have in mind? I know that steve, myself, donnikmare and I'm sure a couple of others are doing good to have an SKS.
Shotguns...now that's a different story
LOL Sorry about that, was not aware.
I tried some +P rounds and could definetely tell I needed a new stronger spring - the slide stop was doing too much of the slide stopping.
My C&R took about 6 weeks, IIRC.
A C&R is a curio and relic FFL that permits you to purchase firearms designated as curio and relic direct for delivery to your home. C&R's are firearms over (kinda oversimplified ) 50 years old or designated in the ATF literature as curio/relic. Better still, it gets you trade discounts at some places (Brownell's, for one).
$30.00 for 3 years - deal of the century if you don't mind keeping the book and making the ATF welcome if they stop by - I believe you only get announced inspections on a C&R and they're reportedly rare. It specifically does not allow you to conduct a (01 FFL) business. So it likely wouldn't be advisable to buy too many that don't land in your safe - I'm not aware of any fast and hard guidelines on this however.
Some of the other Crufflers will set me straight if I got the above wrong.
The only other .44 I've got on hand is Starfire which I guess is just gussied up PMC - we'll see if that stuff needs a hammer to extract the cases - grrr.
Well, I just found out Alduro types faster than I do - sorry about the duplicate on C&R's.
I believe there's more selection than just the SKS, though. The M1 Garand comes to mind - definitely more $ than an SKS though. SOG has nice M49's too - I believe these are like an early model FAL.
No sweat, Bro! I've sent an email to one of the owners of T.I.G.E.R. Valley, telling him we're interested. Let's see what he comes back with, i.e. pistol, rifle, or shotgun, whatever. I'll tell you guys this, take one good training course, and you'll really get hungry for more. It does a lot to raise your level of confidence with that particular weapon, whatever it may be (and it's a lot of fun, too!). Here's a link to their website:
I'll let you guys know what I hear, ASAP. geegee
C&R Do's & Don'ts
OK, there seems to be a little confusion on what a C&R is and what can be done with it. Now, we don't want anybody to end up somebody's girlfriend at the Federal Pen, so lets get a few things straight.
*Purpose of 03 Curio and Relics Federal Firearms License (C&R)*
The purpose of a C&R is to enable firearms collectors to more easily obtain their items. It is NOT, repeat: NOT, to be used in a commercial fashion or to be used to provide all your buddies with rifles. It is to be used to further the collection of the C&R holder.
*What Qualifies as a C&R-Eligible Firearm?*
Short answer--Whatever the ATF says qualifies. Generally, C&Rs are arms manufactured more than 50 years ago or unique or "commemorative" or "collectible" editions of other firearms. See links below for the whole deal. A few examples on what is currently available (and currently cheap):
Commie Block Mosin Nagant Rifles (91/30, 38, 44)
Yugo Mausers (M48, M48A, others)
Commie SKS (most of 'em, anyway)
K31 Schmidt-Rubin Swiss rifles
*Benefits of C&Rs*
C&R purchases sent right to your door without paying a FFL transfer fee at the local gunshop (Yeeaah, baybee!). A C&R costs $30 for three years. A reasonable transfer fee is $25. You do the math. Oh, and many online gun supply retailers give you a discount, including Brownells, the "JC Whitney of guns." I love Brownells.
*Reason NOT to get a C&R*
If you can't keep your checkbook straight, or are a disorganized record-keeper, don't bother. You gotta keep some simple, accurate records of your purchases & dispositions. If your idea of "organized" is to have different piles of papers laying about your office, don't go for a C&R.
* Staying within the law*
OK, you can't buy & sell C&Rs on a commercial basis, and you can't buy a C&R with the intention of turning around and selling it to your buddy. You CAN buy a C&R for yourself with the intention of improving your collection. You CAN buy a duplicate of something you already own with the intention of improving your collection and selling the first one. You can ALSO buy several of the same C&R, pick the best of the lot, and sell off the rest with the intention of improving your collection. Saying, "Hey, I got a C&R & can get you an XYZ rifle for wholesale plus shipping with no transfer fee." is the wrong answer.
*Caveat, weasel words, disclaimer, clinton clause, and general CYA pencilwhipping*
I am not a lawyer and I don't write the ATF's rules. The above is a distillation of what I have read in the regs and regurgitated in an easier-to-follow format. If you intend on getting/using a C&R, READ THE REGS. And follow them. No need to give the JBTs reasons to "pull a weaver" on your home.
FWIW, I have a C&R FFL. I have bought a couple of C&Rs with it, but my eyes are bigger than my wallet. I have already saved, in one year, more than the $30 fee on discounted gun supplies from Aim, Brownells, Midway, etc.
I am ever on the hunt for more C&Rs. The Ruser Corp. CFO, however, is a hard sell on new C&Rs. Also, I told myself I'd spend more money shooting & training this year than on new firearms.
That said, I'm on the hunt for a Swede CG63, Finn M-N M39, Swede M96, CZ52, among others (...wipes drool off keyboard...).
Hope this helps & I don't mean to jump on anybody. I saw a few comments that might could be misconstrued. Best to nip it in the bud.
Information resources to get started:
What qualifies as a C&R:
SOG....they've got a couple I wouldn't mind seeing. Thanks for putting the leg work in Geegee.
Hawk, Alduro, and jfruser
Thanks for the info, clarifications, and the SOG site.
The SOG site has a Romanian AK in the list under "Surplus Rifles."
Does that mean it's being sold as an C & R or is it just for sale as a regular firearm (couldn't figure this out by just looking at the site)?
It does say "ATF Approved" in red letters as if to point out a new approval of it as a C & R but without specifying if that's the case.
The info. I've come across through google seems to point to the Yugo SKS's as the best - most durable, robust, etc. Is that a common and correct perception?
what do you guys think about this?
Bill....you mean the names or are we building a free site?
Also...I have everybody's contact info I think. Is everyone okay if I email everyone else their contact info? Kind of like a phone/email list.
I set up a group for us on Yahoo. Check it out and see what you think...
very cool. I just joined.
I just thought it might take some of the strain off of this thread
I think we are going for THR largest thread ever award.
Feel free to pass my info on to the group, I see no problem.
The Yahoo gorup is a good idea. I used them a lot in graduate school. For those of you not familiar with them you get controlled access, group email adress, chat & file storage.
It's OK with me if you distriubute my info to the group.
Not to be a stick-in-the-mud. but I wouldn't advertise that I was buying guns for other people with my C&R....bad juju with the dept. of Saturday Night.
Its OK if you distribute my info to the group.
I will format the data a little later tonight and see if I can email an attachment of it to everyone.
alduro you can pass out my info to the group
OK to pass my info out too - please use the work email - the home computer is getting a brain transplant tonight. Post-op recovery may not be immediate.
Just got a call that I can pick up my box of .416 rounds. If the next shoot is rifles, there'll be plenty on hand
alduro: I'm fine with the Yahoo group.
I've also just received a reply from T.I.G.E.R Valley. My question was whether there was a possibility of us having shorter training classes (as opposed to a full weekend class, typically costing several hundred dollars). I had discussed this previously with TJ Pilling. He's one of the owners, a Cerified Instructor in numerous weapons, and a local SWAT officer. Here's his response:
Woo-hooo! This could be very cool. We may need to discuss this further at Yahoo. geegee
What do you guys think of having the next get together on April 16 or 17? Will that work for everybody?
I don't think I have anything interfering with that, but I'll wait until it gets closer to commit.
Sounds good geegee, $35 bucks is a damn good deal. Now we have to decide on what kind of course alduro, 17th would be good for me. the 16th is a friday and I don't get off til 3:30pm
Separate names with a comma.