Australia, Guns, and Freedom

[hillbilly]

I sympathize with the dire situation Australians find themselves in with all the idiotic gun bans as well as bans on sharp pointy sticks, etc.

And I want to say that I've personally liked just about every Aussie I've ever met over the years.

However, I also want to point out that Australians are having the problems they've got for more complicated reasons than merely allowing the gun banners to slowly overtake them at the polls.

The average Yank probably has no idea about the political realities of Australia and how screwed up it really is.

Australia is not even really its own country. It still recognizes the Queen of England as the official head of state. Australia overwhlemingly
rejected becoming its own republic in a popular election in the 1990s.

In the early 1970s, the Prime Minister of Australia, democratically elected by the Australian people, was dismissed from office by an officer of the British Crown.......Gough Whitlam was the Prime Minister, Governor General Sir John Kerr was the representative of the Queen......

Here are some links to check out.

http://whitlam.alp.org.au/bio.html

http://www.middlemiss.org/lit/australian/whitlamgovt.html

Can you Americans imagine having your democratically elected leaders dismissed from office by the government of a foreign country tens of thousands of miles away? Can you imagine that happening without violence and bloodshed errupting in the streets?

I read people decrying the "loss of freedom" in Australia.

Well, I hate to point it out, but Australia has never, ever, ever actually had freedom, doesn't have it now, and never will so long as the head of state is the British Regent and democratically elected Aussie leaders can be dismissed from office by British knights.

And it is awfully hard to simultaneously remain both a loyal subject of the Queen and declare your own freedom and rights.

So yes, Australia is an example of what could happen as far as gun bans go.

However, I think Americans should realize the depths of the problems there go much, much deeper than mere sentiments against weapons.

hillbilly

 

[Standing Wolf]

...I think Americans should realize the depths of the problems there go much, much deeper than mere sentiments against weapons.

I'm sure I've known a couple dozen Australians over the years. Almost without exception, they've been independent-minded people who say what they mean, mean what they say, work hard, play hard, and plan not to return to Australia.

 

[KRAUTGUNNER]

Gough Whitlam was an obnoxious rotten socialist @$$**** !!!

He really deserved to be ousted from office!

 

[hipower22]

Gough Whitlam was an obnoxious rotten socialist @$$**** !!!

Absolutely right KRAUTGUNNER. Whitlam's government was turfed out because of the way it prostituted the Australian Constitution. The most notorious example being the so-called Khemlani Affair. Whitlam's government attempted to raise billions of dollars from an Arab financier named Khemlani in defiance of the Australian Parliament.

Those articles in the links posted by hillbilly are heavily weighted propaganda which tell only one side of the story. Most of Australia's present day problems are hangovers from the Whitlam days. This government did more damage in three short years than you can imagine.

The sad thing is that the present so-called conservative government is probably the most dishonest since. They are, for the most part, just a bunch of hypocrites.

hillbilly,

Australia overwhelmingly rejected becoming its own republic in a popular election in the 1990s.

Well, I support an Australian Republic, and I'm pretty sure a majority of other Australian do also, but I voted against the republic in the referendum because the only choice put was for the President to be appointed by the prime minister. What sort of an option is that? It's worse than no republic at all. Opinions polls support the proposition that Australians want an elected president.

If the question had been, Are you in favor of a Republic, I'm sure it would have passed. Then the method of choosing a president could have been decided - and an elected president would have been the result.

So why was this question not put? Because the Australian prime minister knew that by putting the question that HE chose, the referendum would fail. He really is a despicable little t..d!

BTW, I am happy to tell you that we do not have British knights in Australia any more, they were abolished many years ago.

 

[fallingblock]

hillbilly....your points are mostly valid.....

But again, it is even more complicated than that. The Whitlam Government represented an enormous and unprecedented surge to the left for Australian politics, and Whitlam was (is) a very divisive politician who chose some rather unfortunate and self-destructive paths for this nation.

hipower22 makes some valid points in his post:
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"Most of Australia's present day problems are hangovers from the Whitlam days. This government did more damage in three short years than you can imagine."


"the present so-called conservative government is probably the most dishonest since. They are, for the most part, just a bunch of hypocrites."

____________________________________________________________

hillbilly - John Winston Howard is also a staunch supporter of the Monarchy.
____________________________________________________________


"If the question had been, Are you in favor of a Republic, I'm sure it would have passed. Then the method of choosing a president could have been decided - and an elected president would have been the result."


"the Australian prime minister knew that by putting the question that HE chose, the referendum would fail. He really is a despicable little t..d!"
____________________________________________________________

Especially that last sentence! The P.M. is nearly pure ego and hubris. ____________________________________________________________

Standing Wolf:

It stands to reason the Aussies you describe aren't planning to return to Australia; that sort are now an endangered minority here

 

[DrPsycho]

Australia isn't really even a democracy anymore. By law, you have to register and vote in an election. Failure to do so results in a fine. To me, democracy is having a say, included inherently in that is choosing NOT to have a say. But that choice is removed by law. So is the choice for self defense. Even if an Aussie were to use household items in defending their own home during an armed robbery, the homeowner would be charged with assault and the robber could sue for any injuries.

 

[hipower22]

Australia isn't really even a democracy anymore. By law, you have to register and vote in an election. Failure to do so results in a fine. To me, democracy is having a say, included inherently in that is choosing NOT to have a say.

DrPsycho

What you wrote is true, but then what country is a true democracy? I'm not defending compulsory voting, I think it stinks. And if you choose not to vote, I support that too.

Then again, I have read many posts on this board claiming the US is not a democracy, so where do we go from here?

Even if an Aussie were to use household items in defending their own home during an armed robbery, the homeowner would be charged with assault and the robber could sue for any injuries.

On this one, you're wrong - at least in my home state. The prime minister of this country says that guns cannot be used for self defence, but the states control what you can or cannot do to a burglar when he, or she, breaks into your home, and more than one burgler has been shot dead in S.A. without prosecution.