Australia: "More gun than anyone needs" (on new S&W .50)

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cuchulainn

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What's need got to do with anything? (not that I'd buy S&W anyway)

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/02/14/1044927798266.html

More gun than anyone needs
February 15 2003
Gun buyers in the US can't wait to get their hands on the latest revolver. Ralph Frammolino reports from Los Angeles.


Even the most ardent firearm lovers admit that Smith & Wesson's new .50-calibre Magnum revolver is more gun than anyone needs.

It has double the power of most assault rifles in the US. Its kick can send a grown man reeling while a single bullet can drop a raging grizzly. It is so heavy and long that police say no criminal would dare try to hide it in his waistband. It will cost up to $US989 ($A1660). And gun buyers across the United States can't wait to get their hands on it.

Speaking at the Shooting, Hunting, Outdoor Trade Show in Orlando, Florida, Smith & Wesson Corporation chairman Bob Scott said: "The initial reaction has been even stronger than we had anticipated, so we're ramping up production to meet the demand."

The creators of the .44 Magnum of Dirty Harry fame, unveiled its offering on Thursday as the world's most powerful commercially produced revolver.

Executives of the country's second-largest firearms manufacturer said they hoped the gun would help regain lost market share by generating excitement among an important, albeit "niche", market of big-game hunters, collectors and recreational target-shooters. But even before the gun's wide distribution, scheduled for next month, forces on both sides of the firearms debate are taking aim at its social impact.


Gun control groups condemned the Model 500 as an example of the industry's "deadlier-is-better" mentality, predicting the model would soon find its way to the streets.

"A hunting weapon? That's a joke," said Luis Tolley, director of state legislation for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. "What we have here is a weapon that's designed to appeal to people who just want to make a bigger hole in whatever they're shooting at and, hopefully, they're not living next door to me."

Violence Policy Centre executive director Josh Sugarmann said: "This gun is not being made for hunters in Africa. It's being made for bored white gun owners in America. Why are they putting so much fire power into people's hands?"

The real question, say some gun experts, is why are people demanding it?

Adam Firestone, editor of cruffler.com, a gun collector website, said he viewed demand for Smith & Wesson's new product as more of an outgrowth of America's obsession with size and status, rather than an indicator of growing paranoia over crime or security.

"We are phenomenal at buying beyond our needs," he said. "And with regard to the firearm industry, if it is bigger, if it is more expensive we will line up around the corner to buy the darned thing, regardless of the fact that there may be six other guns that cost half as much and do the job just as well."

Smith & Wesson officials hope the new offering, one of nine new models introduced at the Florida gun show this week, will put it back in the good graces of a gun-buying constituency that is angry over the company's decision in 2000 to sign agreements with the Federal Government promising locks on all firearms it sold. That backlash served as a double whammy, taking away sales from Smith & Wesson even as the entire industry was in decline.

Mr Scott, of Smith & Wesson, said: "We're in the process of winning back market share or business that was lost as a result of negative reaction by consumers to the decisions by the previous ownership."

Smith & Wesson has built its reputation by building bigger guns. The .357 Magnum, introduced in 1935, was considered a breakthrough because of its muzzle energy that delivered impact at 535 foot-pounds, said Roy Jinks, the company's historian. Developed at the behest of hunters, the weapon gained favour with police during the mobster era because it could shoot through a car's engine block, he said.

In 1956, Smith & Wesson introduced the even more powerful .44 Magnum, the gun made famous years later by Clint Eastwood in his movies as San Francisco cop Harry Callahan. With Thursday's unveiling, the company leapfrogs ahead of its competitors, who had surpassed the .44 Magnum with more potent weapons.

The Model 500 uses a bigger frame, takes a new .50 calibre Smith & Wesson bullet and packs a muzzle force of 2600 foot-pounds. While there are single-shot, custom pistols that use larger ammunition, the new gun is the largest production firearm with a multi-bullet chamber.

According to Garen Wintemute, a gun expert and director of the Violence Prevention Research Program at the University of California, Davis, at .50-calibre, the bullet is about a centimetre wide but is more powerful than other such ammunition because it is longer and can pack more powder.

He said the gun's cartridge had about twice the muzzle energy of most rounds for common semi-automatic assault weapons used in the US, such as the military style AR-15. He predicted it would be a smash with gun enthusiasts, who could order one with a barrel as long as 25 centimetres.

Marc Halcon, owner of American Shooting Centre in San Diego, said the allure of the weapon "has something to do with the artistry of creating a mechanism that will do something that no other will do. It's another step in science and engineering."

- Los Angeles Times

Copyright © 2003 The Age Company Ltd
 
<<According to Garen Wintemute, a gun expert and director of the Violence Prevention Research Program at the University of California, Davis, at .50-calibre, the bullet is about a centimetre wide but is more powerful than other such ammunition because it is longer and can pack more powder.

He said the gun's cartridge had about twice the muzzle energy of most rounds for common semi-automatic assault weapons used in the US, such as the military style AR-15. He predicted it would be a smash with gun enthusiasts, who could order one with a barrel as long as 25 centimetres. >>


heres a wound channel from 45 acp:
http://www.firearmstactical.com/images/Wound Profiles/45ACP 230gr FMJ.jpg

230 grains at 869 fps

heres an AR15s wound channel:
http://www.firearmstactical.com/images/Wound Profiles/M855.jpg

62 grains at 3000 fps

velocity and a fragmenting bullet design are the juju not "Muzzle enegy"

a hard cast 440 grain bullet at 1600 fps is gonna make a 50 caliber hole in a buffalo
It may not have enough velocity to exit the opposite side

in fact the velocity and bullet weight are going to be similar to a 12 gauge slug:
http://www.firearmstactical.com/images/Wound Profiles/12 Gauge Foster Slug.jpg

437 grains at 1500 fps

yes, that is impressive for a handgun,
but last time i checked, the Army was not replacing AR15s with shotguns
 
Smith & Wesson has built its reputation by building bigger guns. The .357 Magnum, introduced in 1935, was considered a breakthrough because of its muzzle energy that delivered impact at 535 foot-pounds, said Roy Jinks, the company's historian. Developed at the behest of hunters, the weapon gained favour with police during the mobster era because it could shoot through a car's engine block, he said.

I thought that the FBI requested the .357 mag round so they could shoot through car doors.

I wonder if S&W even heard of "their Historian Roy Jinks" cause its obvious he does not know squat.

Shoot through a cast iron engine block on a 1934 ford PUUUULEASE.:scrutiny:
 
Those not into firearms...

sheeple.gif


will need a diaper change after this...

500_cal_compare.jpg


:evil:
 
Holy smacks, you guys see the size of that?!? Man it looks EVIL. I want one, only in a Winchester Model '94 lever action!!!!!!!:what:
 
It really is more than anyone needs in a handgun.
:barf:

To each his own, but I think I need one. :D

2600 ft-lbs? thats about equal to my .308, very impressive.
Awhile back I saw a 45-70 revolver in a shop- it was a HUGE hunk or iron that I would be afraid to pull the trigger on.:what:
 
Ralph Frammolino reports from Los Angeles.

He's regurgitating what Americans, not Aussies, are getting their knickers in a twist over.

Betcha anything this cartridge and revolver have a less than 12-month lifespan!!!

It's the equivalent of S&W raising a single middle finger to the world.

Stupid marketing; stupid timing.

BTW: Koalas are protected, which is sad because in places the little sods are outbreeding the capacity of the land to support them, and dying horribly from starvation. There was to be a "cull" on a couple of islands, but the greens got that stopped. They want individual animals injected with sterilisation drugs and then relocated. Yeah, right .......
 
Lone_Gunman said:

I think the 50 cal S&W is a really stupid idea.
I can't imagine why someone would want one.
It really is more than anyone needs in a handgun.

With all due respect, you're a prime example of the type of person who negatively affects our right to keep and bear arms. The Second Amendment is not about hunting or practicality, it is about freedom. And its opinions like your own that are eroding our rights.

I assume that you also hold the opinion that nobody needs an evil black rifle or a magazine that holds more than 10 rounds, right? :rolleyes: :barf:
 
I don't need a car that will exceed 75 mph.

I don't need more than one change of clothes.

I don't need more than 1500 calories of food a day.

I don't need a television set, multiple phones, a cell phone, a pool table, a barbeque grill.....

Do you get it, now?:fire: :banghead:
 
Ok, so everyone here seems to have mis-understood my comments so I guess I will elaborate.

First, though, I will say that everything in my previous post is true, and it does nothing to hurt your gun rights.

The 500 S&W is conceptually a dumb idea. It serves no purpose, and is unnecessarily powerful for a handgun. The same applies though in my opinion for other handgun rounds in excess of 44 magnum. If you think you need a handgun round that powerful, then what you really need is a rifle. This round is just a novelty round created by a company trying to regain market share. It won't be around in 10 yrs.

My comments are not about freedom or philosophy. They are about the total stupidity of the idea of this caliber.

Instead of misconstruing my comments and accusing me of being anti-2nd amendment, maybe some of you should read over the S&W agreement, and direct your comments to them.

Nothing wrong with black rifles and normal capacity mags, by the way. In fact, if I want something with 2600 ft lbs of energy, I think an M1A with a 20 round mag would be a much smarter choice than this S&W.

I have no problem at all with this gun and caliber being made, its just a bad idea.

If you want one, go for it, but drawing assanine conclusions about the political ideology of those who don't want one is about as stupid as the caliber is in the first place.
 
Ok the way i see this is do we need BMG 50 no but we have them.
Do i need a .50 pistol or BMG no , but i should have the choice. :cuss:

I want a the S&W and the BMG just because it is scaring the sheep:neener: .I would love to open carry S&W 50 thought town. :D
 
"A hunting weapon? That's a joke," said Luis Tolley, director of state legislation for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. "What we have here is a weapon that's designed to appeal to people who just want to make a bigger hole in whatever they're shooting at and, hopefully, they're not living next door to me."
If he lives in DC he can count on that not happening.
 
The new caliber is most certainly NOT a stupid idea.

Some people prefer to hunt with handguns over rifles. I am going to go boar hunting this year and I will probably use a handgun.

You should read some of the stuff by Linebaugh on big bore revolvers and their effect on game.

Big and bigger bore revolvers can stop game much more effectively and with lower pressures than other cartridges.

Don't forget - that 2600 foot pounds is muzzle energy and if you are using all the muzzle energy, you are way too close ;)

This kind of hand gun could be extremely effective at over 100 yards if you have the skill to hit your target.

Additionally, you could do some real light 1400+/- ftlb loads and not have to worry about wearing out the gun. The larger diameter bullet is going to have a much more profound effect on game.

The gun is far from ridiculous and if I had the money, I would buy the hunter model the day it was available. From what I have read, it is very shootable.
 
Well, they just showed it on TV here in Western Australia, on the news. Reporter: "And here's the latest from America's deadly arsenal .....":fire:

Follow with lots of ultra close-ups, using w/a lens to distort the bore, chambers etc.

Conclude with: "The weapon, however, can only be sold in America." :fire:

Sometimes this place really ticks me off.

Bruce
 
It would be a great gun to give criminals. They couldn't hit anything with it, the blast would deafen them, the recoil would sprain their wrists, and because they'd be shooting it ghetto-style, the gun would whack them in the head and stun them after the first shot!

:D
 
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