(AZ) Protesters denounce decision not to prosecute Army Reservist

[Desertdog]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I guess they don't like the fact there is a citizen's arrest law. Or, maybe they think they could be the next one caught by an honest citizen. :banghead:


Protesters denounce decision not to prosecute reservist
April 22, 2005, 07:50 PM
http://kvoa.com/Global/story.asp?S=3249961

Protesters denounced Maricopa County Attorney Andrew Thomas' decision not to prosecute an Army reservist who said he held seven Mexican men at gunpoint, saying it could motivate people to take the law into their own hands.


"His decision feeds the anti-immigration environment," attorney Danny Ortega said at a news conference held by protesters on Friday. "It could have tragic consequences."

Sgt. Patrick Haab, 24, was arrested April 10 after an incident at a rest stop on Interstate 8.

He said he drew a revolver that he was wearing legally in Arizona to stop six men who were rushing him, then ordered them and a seventh man from a vehicle and at gunpoint told them to lie face down on the ground.


He had been held on seven counts of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. But Thomas said Thursday that Haab was making a lawful citizen's arrest and that U.S. Attorney Paul Charlton has charged one of the seven men with engaging in human smuggling.

"This is a very unique case based on unique facts, and people should not infer from this decision that you can take people into custody," said Bill FitzGerald, a spokesman for the Maricopa County Attorney's Office.

"He (Haab) saw these people go into the vehicle, he stopped them and detained them, he took them into custody. Had he been wrong, we would have prosecuted him."

At Friday's news conference, Alfredo Gutierrez, a Hispanic activist and former gubernatorial candidate, called on Charlton to prosecute Haab.

"It's the worst possible decision in face of the Minutemen on the border," said Gutierrez, referring to volunteers patrolling the Mexican border for illegal immigrants.

"The only federal charge pending at this time is against the driver of the vehicle who is the alleged smuggler," said Sandy Raynor, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Attorney's Office in Phoenix.

 

[gunsmith]

Tragic?!

"It could have tragic consequences."

D Ortega said it feeds anti immigration enviroment but fails to explain how legal immigration is at all threatened.
This action is only "tragic" for criminals.

 

[HighVelocity]

"His decision feeds the anti-immigration environment," attorney Danny Ortega said at a news conference held by protesters on Friday. "It could have tragic consequences."

How many times does it have to be said? They're NOT IMMIGRANTS! They're ILLEGAL ALIENS!. :banghead:

 

[agricola]

Interesting bit buried in there, given that it has been said the actions of the Minutemen are legal as long as they dont arrest:

He had been held on seven counts of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. But Thomas said Thursday that Haab was making a lawful citizen's arrest and that U.S. Attorney Paul Charlton has charged one of the seven men with engaging in human smuggling.

 

[Byron Quick]

agricola,

I believe you are assuming that the sergeant is a member of the Minuteman Project, or perhaps you are assuming that whoever said that was telling the truth. I don't believe either is the case.

Also, there are legal actions, such as citizen's arrest and jury nullification, that the government does not like to acknowledge in most cases. Our government has been know to make claims that were not in accordance with the statutes on the books. Our news media get things wrong on a fairly regular basis.

I know of no laws that would strip a US citizen's legal authority to make a citizen's arrest simply because he is participating in the Minuteman Project.

There is exactly one reason why the gentleman was not prosecuted. The US Attorney's Office looked at the facts of the case and then examined the pertinent statutes. They came to the decision that any jury, no matter the composition, that followed existing law...would acquit.

Citizen's arrest is a dangerous tool that can easily lead one to fade felony charges oneself. This is true. But if you see a felony and stop it...you're ok.
If the alleged felons try to rush you and you stop them at gunpoint...you're ok. Depending on state law. In this case, given that it was a federal charge...varying state laws are probably not in effect.

Now, things can go bad for you in doing this. Friend of mine had two teenagers come onto his property with firearms. One had been told never to come onto the property again. They began to exit their vehicles with magnum revolvers in their hands. My friend faced both of them down with a .25 Beretta and disarmed them. He told them to lay down on the ground and not move. They did not comply. He slapped one of them up side of the head with one of the confiscate revolvers-a Ruger Redhawk. Which is a very big and heavy revolver. The front sight cut the teenager like a knife. When he had them both down...they kept trying to get up. He kept physically making them stay down by very violent means.

He was charged with kidnapping and aggravated assault. Which are both felonies. The DA gave him a plea bargain that dropped the kidnapping charge and reduced the aggravated assault charge to a misdemeanor. He was fined a small amount. He put two minors into hospital. He probably would have had little problem if they had been adults.

 

[Old Fuff]

First of all, I agree for the most part with Mr. Quick.

Second: The so-called protesters are the public mouthpiece for what we call the "open border movement" that advocates the idea that anyone can walk in any time they want - in other words, no border. They will attract the liberal media, but hardly anyone else. Don't expect to see any meaningful support in Arizona, but maybe some favorable editorials in certain urban newspapers.

 

[Talon]

Open borders would be perfectly fine with me, if we didn't have all the handout programs. If everybody paid their own way, and we did away with all socialist programs the taxpayers support, then yeah, I'd say open up the borders.

Until then, however, seal them up as tight as possible, using armed civilians.

 

[Old Fuff]

Talon:

I beg to disagree. If you lived along the border you would know that a fair number of these people are not poor folks simply looking for work. Some of them are pure-bred criminals of the worst sort. They are not looking for work, they're looking for loot - or worse.

 

[Byron Quick]

They are not looking for work, they're looking for loot - or worse.

Sure, some are. So are a bunch of native born citizens. The solution is to teach people to defend themselves, arm them, change the laws on use of lethal force, and kill the scum whatever their origin.

 

[Standing Wolf]

How many times does it have to be said? They're NOT IMMIGRANTS! They're ILLEGAL ALIENS!

They know the difference. The leftist extremists are well aware that illegal aliens overwhelmingly vote for representatives of the Democratic (sic) party.

They are not looking for work, they're looking for loot - or worse.

They're finding it.

 

[armoredman]

If some people saw how many of these "poor, hungry, out of work migrants" are inside our prison walls for the most heinous of crimes, maybe they might see things a bit differently....especially if we arranged to release them in those persons neighborhoods....
If we could send just the incarcerated Mexican Nationals back, we'd free up 3,774 beds right there!

 

[c_yeager]

The difference between this case and the actions of the minutemen is that in this case the (current) story is that the men aggresively approached the reservist. This means that he can certainly draw his weapon and hold them for law enforcement. Their immigration status was irrelevant to the arrest. I believe that by state law the MM cannot arrest people soley for an immigration violation. If a member of the project were assault or in fear of being assaulted he could certainly 'arrest' the offender and hold them for the police.

 

[only1asterisk]

armoredman,

3774 is just in AZ right?

David

 

[gunsmith]

worse only one I think he meant

his county!