ohio shooter
Member
Have been looking for a .45 and thought about a 1911 but my dealer put a BDE II in my paw fit nice looks good price where I want it anybody know the functioning. Do they run smooth. Any ftf or fte issues? Thanks
baby desert eagle II any thoughts?
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ohio shooter
Member
I know that. its more a cz75 than anything but im looking for someone that has shot one to know how they run I could care less what its name is I want a fairly reliable .45 at the price around 500 this fits the price and feels good in the hand but I don't want to fight it all the time
Shadow 7D
Member
witness
Jericho...
bul
Jericho...
bul
^ Its proper name is the Jericho as others have mentioned.
In .45ACP, it is a very controllable firearm. I would put its recoil and muzzle flip on par with a government sized 1911. This is probably owed to that heavy full length dust cover.
My first handgun was actually a Jericho in .45 imported by KBI. Now, this means it ISN'T a Baby Eagle II, but I don't think anything has really changed in the way of the design. My experience with the gun was a bit of a heartbreak. The trigger got very nice with some good wear, and I got very proficient with the weapon. Unfortunately, I wasn't ever able to make it through a box of 50 without at least ONE pesky jam.
I experienced FTLs, FTEs, Failure to lock back, and occasionally failures to return to full battery. Now, I would only get one or two of these a range trip, take your pick on which one I would get. The most consistent problem I had was a failure of the slide to lock back. I replaced magazine springs, didn't seem to work. Replaced the slide stop lever, and it worked for about 150 rounds, when it happened once or twice more. I even replaced the recoil spring assembly with a DPMS recoil spring assembly ( http://www.dpmsystems.com/ ) I was overjoyed when I made it through a whole 200 rounds thinking my troubles were over, low and behold, I still get the occasional jam here and there.
Eventually I just chalked it up to it all being my fault. I figured my hands aren't big enough, or I'm not strong/heavy enough to tame it as much as it needs to be. I'm no wimp
but I just can't seem to get it 100%. I still have it, and I'll never sell it. It's my first handgun, and a good handgun at that. It just won't ever be good enough for carrying. Even if it did become 100% reliable, I'd always know all the troubles I had.
So that pretty much sums up my experience with the Jericho platform. If I were to ever get it again, I'd get it in 9mm, what it was designed for. Hey, maybe I got a lemon, everybody gets one right?
In .45ACP, it is a very controllable firearm. I would put its recoil and muzzle flip on par with a government sized 1911. This is probably owed to that heavy full length dust cover.
My first handgun was actually a Jericho in .45 imported by KBI. Now, this means it ISN'T a Baby Eagle II, but I don't think anything has really changed in the way of the design. My experience with the gun was a bit of a heartbreak. The trigger got very nice with some good wear, and I got very proficient with the weapon. Unfortunately, I wasn't ever able to make it through a box of 50 without at least ONE pesky jam.
I experienced FTLs, FTEs, Failure to lock back, and occasionally failures to return to full battery. Now, I would only get one or two of these a range trip, take your pick on which one I would get. The most consistent problem I had was a failure of the slide to lock back. I replaced magazine springs, didn't seem to work. Replaced the slide stop lever, and it worked for about 150 rounds, when it happened once or twice more. I even replaced the recoil spring assembly with a DPMS recoil spring assembly ( http://www.dpmsystems.com/ ) I was overjoyed when I made it through a whole 200 rounds thinking my troubles were over, low and behold, I still get the occasional jam here and there.
Eventually I just chalked it up to it all being my fault. I figured my hands aren't big enough, or I'm not strong/heavy enough to tame it as much as it needs to be. I'm no wimp
but I just can't seem to get it 100%. I still have it, and I'll never sell it. It's my first handgun, and a good handgun at that. It just won't ever be good enough for carrying. Even if it did become 100% reliable, I'd always know all the troubles I had. So that pretty much sums up my experience with the Jericho platform. If I were to ever get it again, I'd get it in 9mm, what it was designed for. Hey, maybe I got a lemon, everybody gets one right?
MachIVshooter
Member
The II's have a rail. That's it.
The BDE is a fantastic firearm. Tanfoglio makes the guns, IWI finishes them, then MRI (owned by Kahr) imports.
I imagine the latest batch are still using poly rifled tubes, though a handful of the last generation got out with conventional rifling.
They are basically a CZ-75 with a larger frame and slide-mounted safety/decocker.
I never owned the .45 version, but have a 9mm full size (small frame). I long ago lost count of how many rounds, but well over 15,000. I would say it jams once every thousand rounds or so on average. Superbly accurate, very solid guns with great ergos.
Too bad the prices hiked so much (I paid under $400 in 2003)
ohio shooter
Member
The price tag on this one is around 5 and a half and I thank you guys that have trigger time from the response that's what I was looking for was the details
^ Oh I should have mentioned, there isn't much in the way of aftermarket parts for the Jericho/Baby Eagle. Even less so for the .45 model. However this may change with the new importation of them by Magnum Research again. You can still get magazines for them fairly easy, either through finding actual MR .45 Baby Eagle magazines, or by purchasing Tanfoglio witness .45 magazines, they are identical. Some of the parts between the witness and the Baby Eagle also are compatible. Such as the extractor, mine broke off fairly early on, at around 400 rounds, and was easy enough to replace.
Grips are pretty hard to come by, I found a guy who claimed to make them, ordered them, but due to some sort of production complication, the fitment of those grips was very poor.
I know I sound like I have a negative tone about the Baby Eagle, but I really do love the gun, and I'm totally willing to chalk up what I got as one of the bad ones. Despite the long struggle to get the gun to run reliably (which I ultimately gave up on) it was an absolute joy to shoot.
This was me shooting fairly hurriedly with winchester PDX ammo, the two quarters are covering up some .38 holes.
If you get it, and you get a good one, and get enough practice, you can be seriously good with it!
Grips are pretty hard to come by, I found a guy who claimed to make them, ordered them, but due to some sort of production complication, the fitment of those grips was very poor.
I know I sound like I have a negative tone about the Baby Eagle, but I really do love the gun, and I'm totally willing to chalk up what I got as one of the bad ones. Despite the long struggle to get the gun to run reliably (which I ultimately gave up on) it was an absolute joy to shoot.
This was me shooting fairly hurriedly with winchester PDX ammo, the two quarters are covering up some .38 holes.
If you get it, and you get a good one, and get enough practice, you can be seriously good with it!
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Safetychain
Member
I've got the baby eagle in .40 cal. The markings are 'Magnum Research' and 'Isreali Arms'. There are no other markings: cz, witness, Jericho, bul, Tanfoglio, KBI, IWI, or MRI. Y'all know a lot about more about my gun than I do. It has shot out over 500 rnds of some factory and mostly various reloads in tmj and plated with never a hiccup. Great gun but a tad snappy compared to my Colt 1911.
iron horse
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I need to know more about the B Eagle (Jericho) reliability as well. Looking for an all metal compact and subcompacts (use same mags.) with a FRAME mounted safety or decocker. For me the Jericho is the best looking all metal CZ "clone". But on the Magnum Research Website, it shows the pistols with only SLIDE mounted safeties/decockers???? It also appears that there is not a
.40 (nor .45) all metal subcompact anymore ?????
Yet, in the Guns and Ammo 2012 Buyers Guide it it shows the B Eagle with a frame mounted safety/decocker?????
.40 (nor .45) all metal subcompact anymore ?????
Yet, in the Guns and Ammo 2012 Buyers Guide it it shows the B Eagle with a frame mounted safety/decocker?????
MachIVshooter
Member
Witness Compact. Same gun, but with frame mounted safety. They come in 9mm, .38 Super, .40, 10mm and .45, blued or "wonderfinish" (pictured) and run about $400 new:
I have one in 10mm, superb little gun
iron horse
Member
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That looks very nice. Does the Witness and Witness Compact come in a frame mounted decocker model? Are they as reliable as a Beretta, Sig or Glock?
^ I do not believe that the witness nor the frame safety variant of the Jericho function as a decocker. I have heard many good things about the tanfoglio witness series of pistols. They are easy to work on, lots of parts available, and are reliable. The only thing that irks me about them, is that Tanfoglio clearly states that the firearm is sold "as is". Basically saying, if you get a bad one, its all on you.
As I said before, many people rave about the Jericho/Baby Eagle, heck, I'm one of them. Most people will tell you theirs has gone through plentiful amounts of ammo without a single hiccup, and I believe 'em. I just have to be honest in saying that I was not so fortunate with mine.
It just goes to show, you won't know if the gun is reliable until you go out there and try it for yourself. Even Berettas, Sigs, and Glocks can be unreliable.
As I said before, many people rave about the Jericho/Baby Eagle, heck, I'm one of them. Most people will tell you theirs has gone through plentiful amounts of ammo without a single hiccup, and I believe 'em. I just have to be honest in saying that I was not so fortunate with mine.
It just goes to show, you won't know if the gun is reliable until you go out there and try it for yourself. Even Berettas, Sigs, and Glocks can be unreliable.
MachIVshooter
Member
No. Just a safety. It's easy to manually lower the hammer, though. I do so one-handed with confidence (no grip safety to contend with)
Generally. I had to modify my extractor to get my compact to run 100% with full power loads, because the lighter slide simply moved too fast for the cartridges to get up under it when it was squared off.
My Limited has always been great, as has my sister's match model (also both 10mm).
The 10's seem to be the most challenging, simply because there is such a spread in the power of commercial ammo-anywhere from light .40 S&W level to true, 800 ft/lb 10mm loads. This is not unique to the Witness, though.
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