"Back Up Gun" ???

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Shawnee

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I've heard/read many discussions of the ever-popular "back up gun", or "BUG" as some refer to it. Nealy all of those discussions reveal an assumption about "back up guns" that I have never understood. To explain...

The speaker will describe their "primary" carry gun as Brand/Model/Caliber "ABC" but then announce that their "back up gun" is NOT Brand/Model/Caliber "ABC", but is actually Brand/Model/Caliber "XYZ" and "XYZ" is usually a less expensive, lower reputation, lesser caliber firearm than the speaker's "primary" weapon. :what:

My question is always - why isn't the "back up gun" the same Brand/Model/Caliber as the "primary" gun it is supposed to be a "back up" for? :confused:
How can an Betty Crocker .22 magnum derringer be a satisfatory "back up" for a Ruger GP100 .357 magnum ? :confused:

Anyone ??????? :confused:

:cool:
 
I'm on your side......
But I think the 'back up gun' would be all about size and 'hide-a-bility'
Just guessing, I don't do 'back-ups'
 
The back up gun is a lot like the Tonto. The Tonto was the Samurai's weapon of last resort and was therefore kept well hidden. The premise was that the opponent shouldn't know you have the thing until it is buried in his torso.

The backup gun is usually a cheaper model because it is not expected to have to perform under that stress of more extreme practice you should be putting your regular carry weapon under. You need to be proficient enough with it that you can use it effectively at close range, but you shouldn't be thinking that you might even stand a chance in a protracted fight with it. Therefore there is no reason to spend the money for a second Ruger when a cheaper foreign made pistol will do for the purpose.

Second, the backup gun is usually carried in a place that makes size an issue. With bulky clothing you can carry a pretty good sized pistol on your waist or under your arm. The backup is then going to ride someplace like a pocket, or on your ankle.

Personally, and this is just my not so humble opinion, if you are going places and getting involved in situations that regularly put you in need of carrying a backup gun you should probably rethink your lifestyle.
 
The knife is called a Tanto. Not spelled like the Indian.

As for the idea of regularly carrying a backup gun, all machines fail. If you have to rethink your lifestyle because you're carrying a backup, why are you even carrying a firearm at all?
 
Backup gun

There are several schools of thought on backup guns that includes a significant disagreement about the intended purpose. One scenario for instance is a police officer who carries a Glock 22 as his primary uniform pistol. As a backup gun he may have a Glock 27 attached to his body armor under his uniform shirt. It functions identically and shares magazines with his primarty pistol should he lose possesion of his primary or it suffers a serious malfunction. Many officers, although carrying a semi-auto as their primary pistol; prefer to carry Smith & Wesson j-frame snubnosed revolvers often in a trouser or jacket pocket as weather dictates. They can attain a full firing grip on the revolver in their pocket when approaching/interviewing people without obviously having their hands on a weapon. As a civilian with a concealed carry license I often drop a snubby in a front trouser pocket when I am "not carrying" a gun. When I am feeling more motivated I may wear a "primary" pistol in a belt holster along with the snubby in my pocket. Backups are (right or wrong) often carried as primary pistols. If they are needed in a true backup capacity it suggests that there has been an attempt to fire if not actual shots fired, before the backup is deployed. If fired in the capacity of a primary pistol, the need for a quality firearm is obvious.

All this being said, I can not envision a situation when I would intentionally select a cheap and/or sub-caliber weapon for self defense including and especially as a backup. By any reasonable definition, if a backup is needed the circumstances are dire and I would want as good a quality pistol as my limited dollars could afford.

What are your thoughts?
 
I know the Japanese sword swingers carried the Katana ,thats the long one and the Tanto, thats the hide out but they also carried a short sword carried along side the Katana and I can't remember the name for that one.
So maybe we should do as the ancient Japanese mercs and carry three weapons. Maybe a 50 a 40 and a 30!
 
Carrying a 'Backup', or Secondary Weapon, has often resulted in folks making odd or puzzling choices.

I remember thinking how one fellow's selection of a foreign-made .22 or .25 might not serve him to best advantage under the worst of conditions.

Joseph Wambaugh's books had quite an impression upon folks, though. For good reason, too.

However, I remember talking to one grizzled old veteran of an earlier generation one time. He said he used to carry a .22 Short pistol in his pants pocket, but he really only expected the noise of the gunshot from the little gun to scare away someone. :scrutiny: :what:

Then again, I remember watching another veteran in my agency when he got off-shift ... and he calmly removed a satin-nickeled Combat Commander from under his uniform shirt, which served as a secondary weapon to his revolver (I'm no longer sure, but I think he used to carry a S&W revolver chambered in .45 Colt).

I knew another senior, experienced street cop who worked nights and carried a S&W 2 1/2" M19 in a shoulder holster under his car coat as his backup gun. He carried a larger .357 Magnum revolver as his primary weapon, too.

I remember when some folks promoted the idea that backup/secondary weapons should be chambered in at least as powerful of caliber as the primary weapon. That made a certain amount of sense ... unless your primary weapon was a .44 Magnum, and I knew a few guys that carried those as authorized service revolvers.

When I carried a secondary weapon it was generally a S&W 649 Bodyguard, carried in my jacket pocket. I went for reliable, compact, ease of carry and drawing/presentation, myself. I felt the 158gr LSWCHP +P was sufficient for my needs in a secondary gun. Still do, as a matter of fact, although I also use the Speer 135gr GD +P load, as well.

Nowadays, while I don't carry a secondary weapon anymore, my commonly chosen off-duty weapon is again a S&W J-frame ... and there have been some occasions when I've carried two of them.

I've seen a number of our folks who thought that they would carry a 5-shot revolver as either a secondary or off-duty weapon, and they were rather startled and disappointed when they discovered that they didn't 'automatically' (it seems) shoot nearly as well with the diminutive DA/DAO revolvers as they did with their issued full-size pistols. :confused:

I miss the earlier days when LE folks were required to develop a foundation of handgun skills using DA revolvers ...

Some folks do seem to like remaining with a reduced size version of their service pistols, such as those folks which carry either a G17 or G22 and may chose a G26 or G27. There are even some LE agencies which issue their folks both full-size and subcompact Glocks for this very reason.

While I find the G26 (and to a lesser degree, the G27) to be my favorite Glock, even the subcompact platform is a bit blocky. I just prefer lighter, more rounded and less chunky guns is some instances, myself. Other folks are fine with it, though.

I did try a couple of early Charter Arms .44 Bulldogs, though, thinking they might make good candidates for secondary & off-duty usage. I knew a guy who carried a blued Bulldog for both purposes.

Unfortunately, my experience with both a blued and a stainless Bulldog were much less than satisfactory so I got rid of both of them.

The carry method/location of the backup/secondary weapon can be very important ... just as with the primary. ;)
 
How can an Betty Crocker .22 magnum derringer be a satisfatory "back up" for a Ruger GP100 .357 magnum ?

For one thing, I would assume that carrying two GPs would be a severe PIA!

I rarely carry a BUG, though I happen to be at this moment. When I carry my 1911 IWB, if there is room in the pockets of the particular pants I'm wearing, I'll drop my 642 in for a ride with it's bigger cousin :) .

I do know a gent who CCWs with a Ruger Vaquero in 45 Colt as his primary weapon, and uses a S&W 640 as a BUG / NY reload. He is a scary shot with that Vaquero, so I understand why he carries it as his primary :cool:.
 
I think the answer to this question comes down to economics: resources being limited, the amount of money and training put into the BUG will necessarily be less than that which is put into the "primary".

For most average CCW citizens, the odds are pretty long against having to draw the primary, and even longer against needing the backup. So, when it comes right down to dollars and cents, I can easily see carrying a BUG of somewhat lower price/quality than the primary.
 
Here's my 1.5 cents.

We all understand why a LEO carries a BUG, even applaud it. I was a LEO and I once needed a BUG but didn't have one yet, luckily I had a partner, otherwise I may have been dispatched off that day. From that day on, I made sure that my Model 60 was in my shirt pocket, I got used the discomfort and yeah, I got a big chest.

Well today, I am no longer a LEO, no longer have a shadow (partner), and may find myself in a situation once again where w/o a partner or BUG I am dead.

A cop has a radio and his friends are never too far away. A cop has a BUG and a long weapon and usually body armor.

You and me, we try to stay out of trouble but sometimes trouble follows us. I don't have a radio and a bunch of armed friends with sirens, I have a cell phone to diall 911 (and die). I don't walk around with body armor and my primary weapon is no longer visible on my belt but is concealed and harder to get at. For all these reasons, and as previously stated, because things tend to not work when you need them most, I carry a BUG, once upon a time I carried two BUGS and they needed to be comfortable. My primary is a five shot snub nose .44, my BUG is currently a NAA .22 magnum. If I need the BUG, you are correct, I am definitely in dire straits, but I would rather have it than not. It may be cheap but it is well made and I may get another to supplement it.

BTW, I did think of getting another Taurus 44c as a BUG or a Taurus 941 or something in .38 special, I even considered the PF-9 or the P3-AT. Lack of funds is my primary reason for not buying another gun, it is also illegal here to carry more than one CCW, I figure most LEO's wouldn't make a terrible fuss over my NAA, I can also wear it unconcealed and un-noticed.
 
I know the Japanese sword swingers carried the Katana ,thats the long one and the Tanto, thats the hide out but they also carried a short sword carried along side the Katana and I can't remember the name for that one.

I think the sword you're thinking of is called the Wakizashi (Shorter than the Katana, but longer than the Tanto)

I carry a BUG, and it works for me if/when my primary goes down. It's not the same Caliber as my primary, but it's small and conceals well.
I can just imagine the look on the BG's face when he thinks he has me because my primary gun went down. Checkmate!
 
Some choices I made in regard to BUG's

Colt 1911A1 backup Detonic's - same caliber, controls and mags.

Dan Wesson 15 6" - SP101 - both 357's - same firing functions

Marlin 1894 44Mag Carbine - Virginia Dragoon or S&W Mod 29 - same ammo

Rossi Puma .357 Carbine - Dan Wesson Revolver - same ammo

Savage 24 22LR & 20 ga - S&W Model 17 22LR revolver - same ammo - thou sometimes would use S&W M29 to give small game/Bird and Large Game capability.

So you see choices that I have made sometimes to simplify sometimes to diversify - Choices of carrying an Auto that you don't totally trust might make you choose a simpler Revolver that you have more confidence in or that can do something you can't do with an Auto (shoot repeat shots from inside clothing).
 
I Know Not What Course Others May Take...

...but as for me, let me keep carrying my pair of S&W 640-1's, one behind each hip. As I private citizen, I regard each of my handguns as a backup gun and I like being able to access the identical gun,whether circumstances allow or dictate drawing and firing with the right hand or the left hand.
 
A BUG is a purely personal thing. It is what makes you comfortable, it is a security blanket of sorts. It is secondary to the primary weapon not to be deployed unless things are really bad.

Caliber is less of a consideration than reliability. One has to think about the way a BUG is carried, on the ankle, in the armpit, crotch, etc. Not good places for a cheap or complicated weapon. There are exceptions of rural LEO's carrying additional weapons in their auto, which makes sense, a copy of the primary is preferable there.

IMHO it is what the Airweight J frames are perfect for. An ultra reliable gun, made of materials that generally do not rust and are of a adequate caliber to get you out of a jam. Five rounds are a godsend when the chips are down and the primary is out of commission.

One note from a LEO standpoint. A primary weapon worn on the belt is like a homing beacon to certain bad guys. Many an interview has been conducted by yours truly with a bad guy staring at the Sig on my hip while I was clenching the 640 in the pocket.

And it all else fails there is always a good knife in the pocket as well.
 
ABCDE, you're right about the name of the short sword.

As for everyone else who made a big deal about the misspelling, don't pick on the dyslexic kid for making an occasional mistake.:eek:

As for the Samurai carrying three weapons, there's a lot more chance of breaking, or dulling, a sword in a protracted battle, especially since you're beating on an armored opponent with them, than there is that a modern firearm will fail.

I personally don't carry a backup now. When I was in the special forces I carried several including enough knives that I had to be careful not to fall in the deep end of the pool or I sunk.

I carry my primary and a four inch, Damascus utility blade (the blade was gift and has replaced my usual pocket knife). I may be getting older, but I have spent over thirty years training to protect myself; the twenty-seven foot rule still applies. Not to mention that I can still out run most of the punks who might try and chase me, at least for a short distance.
 
Sounds like something to order at a restuarant.

The kanji (脇差)(if you can read it) means "wear at one's side"

If you're gonna order something at a Japanese restuarant, may I suggest chuutoro (中トロ)(fatty tuna) sushi. Taste great with beer or Japanese Sake.
 
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Thanks, Gents !! Interesting stuff !!


from "Sato"... "if you are going places and getting involved in situations that regularly put you in need of carrying a backup gun you should probably rethink your lifestyle."

I am sort of that thinking myself, and even wonder if our LE people may need to rethink some of their long-held strategies and tactics re: officer-carried firearms - just as they have begun rethinking the concept of the high-speed chase.
If it were somehow possible to determine how many times the carry of a back-up gun (by an officer) actually "made the difference" in the outcome of a hostile event - I wonder if the stats would support or diss the practice.
Of course, on a personal level, the practice would have to "make the difference" only ONCE for that particular officer to feel it was worth it.
But counter to that, in my own personal experience I was once confronted by someone with a pistol when I was completely unarmed. Though I have no special martial arts training I disarmed the knucklehead without any excessive angst - and so struggle to envision a "need"-a-BUG scenario even in LE, except perhaps some really special undercover duty of some exotic type.

But, as some have said - it has got to be a personal thing.

Thanks again, All ! :)

:cool:
 
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