Backpack hunting question(s)

[coloradokevin]

Okay guys, I'm looking to you hunting experts to provide me with some advice on the subject of backpacking for the sake of hunting large game (elk). Please excuse any ignorance on my part, as I'm a novice when it comes to hunting the larger ungulates (elk, moose). I saw another thread on this subject recently, but my questions are a bit different, and I wasn't willing to thread-jack for the sake of getting some answers!




To help qualify my questions, here is some background on my own life experiences:

-I am a very experienced backpacker, and have logged hundreds of nights in the wilderness... I've instructed courses on the subject in college, and have spent time out in nearly every environment imaginable (from 120F desert conditions, to -25F mountain conditions, to coastal rainforests, and nearly everything in between).

-I am an experienced shooter, and have been shooting since childhood. I'm a full-time police officer, and shoot a lot at work and on my own time (to include rifle, pistol, shotgun).

-Unfortunately I only have very limited big game hunting experience. When I was growing up I hunted deer in Ohio, but that was about 15 years ago. Also, that environment is such that you shoot the animal, field dress it, then drag it about 100 yards to the nearest road... No big deal, and the animals weren't huge.


Anyway, given my interests, I've really been eyeing the idea of backpacking for the sake of elk hunting in Colorado (after all, it rolls all of my interests into one trip). I hear people talk of backpack hunts from time-to-time, and we sure do have a good chunk of elk-filled wilderness in this state. Even if I didn't backpack, I could still see making a significant trek into the wilderness over the course of a one-day hunt.

But, I really can't quite get my mind around how you go about getting an animal the size of an elk out of the mountains without horses or an ATV. Since ATV's are not allowed in wilderness, and I don't have one, they are out for the forseeable future. Since I don't have easy access to a horse, and only have limited riding experience, I'd say that horses would also be a limited option, unless I was lucky enough to be traveling with someone else who was experienced in horse packing (I've been on a horse more than once, but it isn't an area of expertise for me)!

So, these limitations would seem to suggest that I'll be removing the animal on foot. From what I gather about the differences between deer hunting and elk hunting (and please correct me if I'm wrong), the most common practice seems to be either quartering or boning-out the carcass of an elk for easier transport... Clearly an elk is much heavier than a whitetail deer, so this concept makes sense to me in theory. But, even when quartered or boned-out, an elk is a very heavy animal!

With all of this in mind, how does one go about removing their meat after shooting a large animal deep in the wilderness? I can imagine that this would be done over multiple trips, but how do you preserve the remaining meat in the wilderness while removing the first load? For example, if I'm 5 miles into the wilderness with, say, 200-350+ lbs of quartered elk to remove, that is obviously going to take me a few trips, and a good chunk of time. Even if I had helpers --which I hope I would-- that still won't be a short round trip with a ten mile mountain hike involved!

To my way of thinking, the task of meat preservation sounds easier to me in a snowy environment, but snow can be hit or miss around here depending on where and when you conduct your hunt. Even if the temperatures were ideal, I imagine that the meat would still be exposed to other critters of the forest until it was removed.

Anyway, I was just hoping that you seasoned pros could offer some constructive advice on this subject, as I'm obiviously pretty green when it comes to hunting animals that weigh more than I do! If I'm completely missing the point here, please feel free to let me know as well... I'd really like to start elk hunting in this fine state, primarily for the sake of getting meat, but I don't want to bite off more than I can chew (so to speak)! I'll certainly be looking to team up with a more seasoned hunter on my first trip out, but I would still like to educate myself on the subject as much as possible.

Thanks in advance for any help!

 

[AStone]

Kevin, I, too, am an experienced backpacker and mountaineer.

I can't claim the same about medium to large game hunting, although I still hope to be.

I've wondered the same about hauling out large quantities of fresh meat.

I'll read this with interest.

 

[Bwana John]

I have shot many deer and a couple of elk backpack hunting, and worked for outfitters in Wyo hunting elk in wilderness areas.

The key is to hang the meat you cant get out in one trip out of the reach of Yogi and Wiley.

This involves finding a good tree (hard at treeline), having a good static 7-8mm rope and at least one rescue pulley.

As long as the temps are <40 degrees, it is not in the sun, and the meat is covered with a breatheable game bag to protect it from bee, flys, ect you are OK for quite some time (5 days at least). When hung under ideal conditions the meat "ages" and actually tastes better. Above 40 degrees or no air circulating and the meat rots.

The animal is field dressed as soon as possible and skinned. Blood is no problem it hardens protecting the meat, but if you shot into the abdominal cavity the mess needs to be cleaned up with clean water.

You usually arnt to picky about getting all the meat out, I let the predators have the neck, shanks, and ribs along with the gut pile.

The quarters can be boned out which drops the weight considerably, but takes time and some resharpening.

After that, it's how much can you carry. A external frame pack carries dead weight like meat much better than a internal one, and allows the meat to cool and air to circulate better. I can usually get a smaller deer and all my kit out in one trip. With a bigger deer I try to get all the meat, but leave my camp. With elk it's just hard work, usually at least 3 trips.

If you can get a horse to pack out the meat after the first trip out it is usually worth it. You dont have to ride a horse, just have the meat packed out by a friend, local rancher, or outfitter.

Spot packing works very well, you hike in and meet the outfitter at prearranged spot, he dumps your gear, and then comes back when you want to get all your kit and hopefully your animal, you walk out.

The beauty of backpack hunting is that it put you at the right place at O-Elk o'clock, early morning and late evening, if you just dayhike you get to the right area, but the wrong time of day.

 

[wheelgunslinger]

What Bwana John said.

An easy way around the issue of making multiple trips is to hunt with 4-8 buddies in the same area or together, or go in with a burro, llama, mule, or horse to use as a pack animal from the outset.

A key to packing out meat is to not carry too much on the first trip, if you're carrying it on your back. People tend to overload from excitement and adrenaline after the kill.

As John mentioned, dusk and dawn are the peak times. If you kill one at dusk, you may just have to sleep a ridge over to stay away from the predators that will smell it. You also need to approach it the following morning with caution since there could be a Cougar sleeping nearby with a full belly or a bunch of Coyotes or wolves. A lot of guys miss that sandpaper sound of the cat cleaning itself after a meal and walk right up on them.

 

[coloradokevin]

Thanks for the advice so far guys! As usual, answering one question always brings me to another.

As long as the temps are <40 degrees, it is not in the sun, and the meat is covered with a breatheable game bag to protect it from bee, flys, ect you are OK for quite some time (5 days at least). When hung under ideal conditions the meat "ages" and actually tastes better. Above 40 degrees or no air circulating and the meat rots.

This makes enough sense to me in theory, but what do I do when the temps start to climb? I live in Colorado (as I'm sure you gathered by my screen name), and the temperature varies quite a bit around here from day-to-day. In the fall, even in the mountains, it isn't uncommon to have 60 degree days, 30 degree nights, or cold days and nights. I also have to admit that some of our high country trees leave a bit to be desired in the size department, so I'm sure the search for a suitable tree from which to hang an elk is no small task!

By mentioning the temperature, you seem to make a good argument for late season elk hunting! I know at least one of the guys on my department says that he won't even hunt elk unless there is snow on the ground, but I wasn't sure if that was for the sake of tracking or meet preservation.

As John mentioned, dusk and dawn are the peak times. If you kill one at dusk, you may just have to sleep a ridge over to stay away from the predators that will smell it. You also need to approach it the following morning with caution since there could be a Cougar sleeping nearby with a full belly or a bunch of Coyotes or wolves. A lot of guys miss that sandpaper sound of the cat cleaning itself after a meal and walk right up on them.

You bring up another question I'm trying to figure out. How do you protect the meat from predation? I can see John's point about hanging the meat, though after years of "bear bagging" my food while backpacking, I can clearly appreciate how difficult it must be to hang an entire elk out of the reach of bears and such. Still, even when hung, I can't imagine that the meat would be all that protected from mountain lions and birds!

Should I just assume that some meat loss is inevitable when making a long trek out with a large animal?

 

[Big Bill]

I won't elk hunt without horses (period). I've tried it the other way and it's just too much work.

Are you going to have someone help you; or, are you going to do this all alone? Only superman could do it alone, IMHO.

 

[ChefJeff1]

I hunt with a friend. Last year we packed out a cow elk in 1 trip. this year we'll be backpacking in. I plan to get the meat to the car. I can always go back another day for my gear if it gets late. If I'm far back from the car, I'll only take meat and evidence of sex for legal purposes. Bones, hide can stay in the woods. I also plan to have 2 coolers in my truck packed with block ice from the walk-in freezer at my job. they'll keep ice for at least a week in October.

 

[Bwana John]

it isn't uncommon to have 60 degree days, 30 degree nights,

A day or two wont hurt, as long as the meat is in the shade, and air can circulate, Some people hang their deer/elk for a week before butchering no matter what the weather is like. Think "aged beef". Rain will mess up the meat.

says that he won't even hunt elk unless there is snow on the ground,

Elk as easiest to hunt when they are moving between summer and winter range, snowfall makes them move.

how difficult it must be to hang an entire elk

You dont hang the entire elk (without a team of horses), you hang skinned, boned in quarters without shanks.
You need a "static" rope (one which does not stretch) that is big enough around to hold on to (7-8mm)
You need at least 2 rescue pulleys for elk(from climbing) and the knowledge of how to use prussiks and "Z' systems (from big wall hauling or cravass rescue) to increase mechanical advantage.
AND you need a suitable tree(which are hard to find around treeline)

I can't imagine that the meat would be all that protected from mountain lions and birds!

The breathable mesh bags keep the bees and flys and smaller birds from the meat, Ive never heard of a lion messing with a hung quarter.

Should I just assume that some meat loss is inevitable

Most of the loss comes from poor butchering techniques, and willingness to leave parts that would have been taken otherwise (A slice of skull with the antlers, 2 backstraps and 4 boned out 1/4s are what I try to get out, I leave necks, flanks, shanks, ribs, most of the bones, hide, and organs for the scavengers).

 

[coloradokevin]

You dont hang the entire elk (without a team of horses), you hang skinned, boned in quarters without shanks.
You need a "static" rope (one which does not stretch) that is big enough around to hold on to (7-8mm)
You need at least 2 rescue pulleys for elk(from climbing) and the knowledge of how to use prussiks and "Z' systems (from big wall hauling or cravass rescue) to increase mechanical advantage.
AND you need a suitable tree(which are hard to find around treeline)

John, thanks for the additional advice! Who'd have guessed that my climbing experience would come in handy for elk hunting?

I'm probably the only former midwestern hunter I'm aware of who even knows what a prussik is, so that's got to give me at least some bonus points We don't deal with crevass issues here in Colorado, so I'd still need to buy a couple of rescue pulleys, and refresh myself on the old Z-pulley system, but I can at least say that it is a familiar concept that I've played around with in the past!

 

[Bwana John]

They make some very nice, light, small pulleys these days
http://www.columbussupply.com/products/?productid=1438
You do NOT need carabiners. too much weight, tye small loops of rope for links instead. Prussics are made from para cord.

I would also read up on disarticulating and butchering a large animal, the saw is only used for taking the slice of skull with the antlers, everything else comes apart with a knife. (you dont need to split the sternum, Yogi gets all that stuff.) You will need to resharpen the knife, possibly more than once.

Skinning, disarticulating, and boneing out is done much easier with the animal or quarter hanging at chest height. Even if you cant get the animal off the ground the tension in the rope helps hold it open so gravity can help you take it apart.

 

[Balog]

Bwana John: do you have a good guide you could point me to about skinning etc? My googlefu is weak today. Thanks.

 

[cleardiddion]

This is way too interesting a read

 

[CoRoMo]

Hopefully my experiences will help. I've been hunting deer and elk here for several years, and have had to do exactly what we're talking about here. I never have used horses because I don't own any, and they are too expensive ($150/day) to rent IMHO.

I've been backpack hunting for the past few years, and I'm hooked because it sure beats hiking in everyday, for 5-6 miles, just to begin the hunt. We backpack in and camp about 5 miles from the trailhead. We set up camp there, and stay there for the whole hunt. We've hunted the same area for many years, and know it very well. Moving the camp around from day to day would not be recommended IMO.

You're right that boning out the meat, and packing it in multiple trips will probably be the only way. If you have good packs that'll hold a hindquarter, make your trip out and come back for more. It is a lot of work, but it's worth it IMO.

However, there are ways to get an elk out whole, and without horses or vehicles. We've been able to roll out two elk, whole, over the last three seasons. I have, what used to be, a carpet dolly that has two pneumatic tires like a wheelbarrow. It was used by a carpet company to wheel around those huge rolls of carpet in their warehouse. I know a dolly like this isn't just something that you can go buy at Gander Mt, or anywhere for that matter, but I think I could build one if I needed to since I'm able to weld. Anyway, a game dolly of some sort would be a good idea for this type of task. If you can't haul them out whole on it, you can hike out after the kill and retrieve the dolly. Then hike back in and either load 'em up on it, or bone them out and pile the parts on the dolly.

Last year, what we began doing is to load the dolly up with our entire camp (this thing will probably bare 1,000lbs) and roll it up into the backcountry, to the campsite. That way it is out there with us, and we are hiking in without anything on our back. I'm not yet sure if this is the way to go because it is brutal to get that loaded dolly up the hill!

The first time we rolled a whole elk out, I hiked out to put away my rifle, and a few camp things, and to retrieve the dolly and a come-along. We used the come-along to drag the elk up into a tree to finish dressing it out and then lower it onto this dolly. It is not necessary to do that, but easier. The next time, we just laid the dolly on its side and scooted the elk into it, and hauled the whole thing back up onto its wheels.

Hard work anyway you look at it.

If I can find a photo of me and the first elk on the dolly, you can PM me and I'll load it up. Otherwise, I think you get the idea. I've also dragged out a mule deer, whole, by myself. I don't really want to do that again if I don't have to, but debating between making several light weight hikes at that distance vs. one grueling haul, I chose the latter.

 

[coloradokevin]

Thanks for keeping this thread going with the advice everyone! It is always nice to hear about the different ways people go about getting things done (especially for those of us who are moving up in game class size here).

 

[Sav .250]

I just googled your question........ found some information..

 

[Bwana John]

I have, what used to be, a carpet dolly that has two pneumatic tires like a wheelbarrow. It was used by a carpet company to wheel around those huge rolls of carpet in their warehouse.

I am pretty sure that wheeled anythings are NOT legal in National Forest Wilderness Areas.
Comes under the term "mechanized"

From the USFS- "Possessing a wagon, cart, wheelbarrow, bicycle or other mechanical or other motorized vehicle including a game cart is prohibited."

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I've had success with putting the cut-up carcass in plastic bags. Move some distance from the gut pile, pile up spruce boughs over the bags, to keep keep predators off. Leaving an article of clothing with your scent on it helps, too.

Carry a roll of surveryor's flagging tape and flag a wide circle around the meat cache (so you can find it later, even if you're a bit off course. Also, if you have a GPS, mark it as a waypoint. If you have enough tape, flag your way down to a road or trail, so you can easily find your way back.

 

[coloradokevin]

I am pretty sure that wheeled anythings are NOT legal in National Forest Wilderness Areas.
Comes under the term "mechanized"

You are correct on that, although there are probably a number of really nice wilderness-like elk huntable areas in this state that do not fall under the rules of the wilderness act. Wheels are allowed on NF lands, just not NF Wilderness area lands, among others!

 

[Ben Shepherd]

Snow is your friend, it preserves the meat, and makes dragging it out rather than packing it out a good proposition.

I've always cheated I guess. I get someone I know with horses help me pack it out and pay them for the trouble with some fresh elk. Win-win right there.

 

[AStone]

Wheels are allowed on NF lands, just not NF Wilderness area lands, among others!

Correct.

And, I'm annoyed that wheeled carts are not allowed in "official" wilderness.

They allow horses, both for riding and packing, and those tear up far more trail turf than a non-motorized cart, either single- or double-wheeled.

 

[coloradokevin]

And, I'm annoyed that wheeled carts are not allowed in "official" wilderness.

Yeah, I can appreciate your sentiment on this issue, at least to some degree. I think the reason that these laws exist as they do is to try to make sure that people don't find a way to bring mountain bikes, motorcycles, etc, into the wilderness. Honestly, I think life would be a lot easier for a lot of hunters if they could relax these rules just a bit. I certainly like keeping the wilderness "primitive", but I'm not so sure that we are really going against that to any great extent by using a handcart to remove game!

As a funny side story in relation to this aspect of wilderness travel, I once had an entertaining encounter with a local hunter while backpacking in the Cranberry Wilderness in West Virginia (probably 10-12 years ago). Anyway, we were camped along the Middle Fork of the Williams River in deer season, and heard a grating sound coming from down the trail a short distance. Eventually I spot a guy leading a huge draft horse down the trail, pulling a hefty looking sleigh behind him. Because it was still fall in WV, there wasn't any snow on the ground yet, and this guy was just dragging the sleigh across the dirt and stuff. Clearly this wasn't good for the sake of the trail, but my conversation with the ol' hillbilly has kept me smiling to this day. It went almost exactly like this:

Me: "How ya doin?"
Him: "Good, you's?"
Me: "Good... So, do you mind if I ask why you picked a sleigh for a day like this?"
Him: "Well, we's been huntin' these woods since my grandpappy was around, and now they done told me that this here's a wilderness. They tells me that I can't use my cart in here no more, but they tell me it's still okay to drive my sleigh... I think they're crazy, but I done brought my sleigh to hunt me a deer today"


Now, to be entirely honest, I never have figured out if sleighs are allowed or prohibited in wilderness areas. Frankly, I'd never even considered trying to run a sleigh behind a horse, let alone do so in the wilderness. Personally, I don't know of any prohibition on sleighs, so I'll just assume they are legal until I hear otherwise. If that is the case, then I really need to hand it to this guy for finding an interesting loophole on this deal (even if I didn't agree with the trail damage that he was likely causing). And, to be fair, I'm not sure why you'd need a sleigh to pack out deer meat, rather than just strapping it to the horse?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

If he's going to bring a horse, why not a pack horse? A good horse will carry about 400 pounds, more than enough for a camp.

 

[mich763]

I'm glad I stumbled onto this thread (& site).

My situation & questions are the same! Although, regrettably, I do not have the extensive climbing, etc. experience as far as working pulleys, rope systems, etc.

I wish you luck Kevin !

 

[JShirley]

Thanks for all the great information, guys!

Based on my time as light infantry, I'm not really happy packing over 40 lbs, or so, so I will definitely find another method, if I ever get a chance to hunt elk.

 

[mich763]

oh yes...I have also been wondering about the feasibility of an old-style travois (no wheels!) but wonder how hard it is to drag & how much weight it could carry. And I am sure uphill is a real bitch! (and prob. down as well)