I was looking for a front stuffer and came across these long range jobs for $2500-$4000. I was thinking the idea itself is interesting. I might be over simplifying this thing but see if I'm not far off. Both of these front stuffers are basically bolt action rifles, Model 700's etc, that use a magnum rifle primer to lite 200 grains of BP substitute, the Ultimate being 4 pellets topped with a .50 cal 300 gr bullet at speeds approaching 2400 FPS, the Bad Bull is 100-140 grs of IMR 4350 topped with a .45 cal 275gr Ballistic Extreme bullet at 3100 FPS. But no matter how impressive that all sounds the price is still more that I am willing to pay. So what if I buy a single shot 45-70 from say Rossi, then load a empty 45 colt case (the Ultimate uses a 45 acp case) that is primed only and load from the muzzle the Bad Bull load. Again over simplified but am I not close? So could I make my own Ultimate with a breach adapter made to fit the chamber of a modern 45 or 50 cal bolt action, single shot, or falling block? I just want to be able to shoot a Muzzle loader at these distances, Both of these claim 300, 400 and 500 MOA. I know its do able at much less than those kinda prices. CVA, Thompson, and even the Savage model 10 are a lot less, maybe even someone has some tricks to get those kinda stats from these rifles. What say you fine Gentlemen.
bad bull/ultimate muzzle loaders
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pikid89
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i have no clue if that would work or not, but if I'm not mistaken, that sort of breech loading job would be disallowed by many state wildlife commissions for Black Powder hunting seasons, as it would be too easy for someone to throw a 45-70 bullet in the pocket
Your right Sir the more I look around on this the more I think its just a bunch of hog wash too. Other than smokeless is cheaper to buy as most "fake blackpowder" propellants can cost $25 a pound and you use a lot MORE of it by weight. I have to think the 500 yard moa or even 250 yard moa is hard to swallow. Here's a cheaper replacement barrel that is the answer to my question any way. But I'm still hoping to get some more input on what most think.
http://www.smokelessmuzzleloading.com/index.html
http://www.smokelessmuzzleloading.com/index.html
pikid89
Member
If your really want to get into much higher power front loaders, go with the Savage 10-ML...Its built to take smokeless powder, so I'm sure it can take a pretty stiff load of black powder as well
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/10mlii
I think Id rather have the well regarded Savage than a mom and pop replacement barrel to be running real high power loads through
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/10mlii
I think Id rather have the well regarded Savage than a mom and pop replacement barrel to be running real high power loads through
Thanks for the link I guess I better hurry on the Savage, this is the last year its in production. I like it the Savage 10-ml and all the fine rifles they make. They are the best value in accurate firearms I can think of, at least for American made rifles. Thanks for the link.
I read a report on the Ultimate a few years back in a rag published in MI. They were claiming 2600fps and a "working" deer killing range of 500 yards. I wrote telling them they were encouraging people to shoot way beyond their abilities, especially with a gun that would have about seven feet or more of drop way out there.
Hype in advertising. It'll get us every time.
Hype in advertising. It'll get us every time.
Not for hunting, but muzzleloaders were and are used in 1000 yard shooting competitions.
Pedersoli makes a decent one, the Gibbs. The Whitworth and the Volunteer rifles are also contenders. You don't need fast to shoot far, you need repeatable. Of course the Trapdoor Springfield was tested at 2 miles.
Pedersoli makes a decent one, the Gibbs. The Whitworth and the Volunteer rifles are also contenders. You don't need fast to shoot far, you need repeatable. Of course the Trapdoor Springfield was tested at 2 miles.
And, in target shooting you get sighters, measured ranges and plenty of time to compute, adjust sights and so on. I've shot out to 500 yards, out to 200 in the Musket Chanpionship at Friendship, and would never try a shot at extreme distance on live game with a normal muzzle loading rifle (of course, I use a traditional, external hammer, open sighted round ball gun as I believe "primitive weapons" season should be for primitive weapons...read on......) I don't have anything against people using inlines or bolt action muzzle loaders but they should be aware of the range limitations of their guns...I believe that for most folks, if they were honest with themselves, that 200 yards would be about the limit of their/their gun's ability.
I have seen the benchrest slug gunners shoot 99 9X at 200yds but that ain't huntin'
I have seen the benchrest slug gunners shoot 99 9X at 200yds but that ain't huntin'
Most "hunters" would be better served with a shorter maximum range. I did not realize this was about hunting and merely offered my comments prefaced with "...Not for hunting..." to show that rifles are capable of long range accuracy.
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