Bad news for M2 BMG fans.

[Shadow Man]

Shadow Man, Parts have been made by lots of different vendors for the M2. Not sure about FN but, I'll take your word for it.

I shouldn't have said "all," I just vaugely remember seeing some FN parts on a couple M2's. My CRS could be afflicting me, so I can't say with any certainty. I'm sadly not surprised about spec's being off, it always seems to be an issue when multiple parts for a system come from different companies.

 

[guntech59]

I shouldn't have said "all," I just vaugely remember seeing some FN parts on a couple M2's. My CRS could be afflicting me, so I can't say with any certainty. I'm sadly not surprised about spec's being off, it always seems to be an issue when multiple parts for a system come from different companies.

CRS...I hear ya! I just hit 50 so....that hits a little close to home.

Yes, the bad parts are a real pain. Especially when they are not in stock at the shop. When I wait a week for a prt and it doesn't fit.... :banghead:

 

[Owen]

at least FN will actually show up and try to make it right if you bitch loud enough. good look with Johnny Garage Shop

 

[knights_armorer]

its WAY FASTER than the old ma duece.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBcvKTYUFq8&NR=1

 

[tank mechanic]

The new gun... is more accurate due to a new recoil compensation system that also reduces the wear and tear on helicopters.

I thought that was interesting when I read that. Is the wear and tear from mounted heavy machine guns on helicopters bad enough that there is a problem? All of the helicopters I have flown on seemed like they were doing a fine job of being rattled to pieces from the prop.

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Jeff82]

"Ma Deuce." Get it right.

And helicopters don't have "props." They have "rotors."

 

[knights_armorer]

another cool video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqQ2z1D4LQc&NR=1

 

[knights_armorer]

"America" get it right.

 

[tank mechanic]

And helicopters don't have "props." They have "rotors."

Oops.

 

[Jeff82]

Not with the commies taking over.

 

[knights_armorer]

lol jeff.

im as sentimental as anyone about the MA DEUCE (j82) but that new 50 is seriously fast. they said the m2 had a possible max rate of 700 rounds per minute, but i never heard one that sounded much more than half that. the gau 21 sounds even faster than the claimed 1100 to me.

wicked firepower.

 

[Jeff82]

Ya, I've got a special place in my heart for the M2. AFAIK, it clocks around 500-550 rpm. When I was doing aircraft armament we'd get our M296's up to around 750. But that GAU-21 was sweet sounding!

 

[ronaldo615]

I believe the M2 holds the record as far as the longest gun in service period, not just the longest machinegun in service

 

[Wes Janson]

The "M2HB" or Ma Deuce is only one of a seemingly-endless number of Browning heavy machinegun designs. There have been variants of the M2, AN-M2, M3, etc on back since before WWII. The FN model in the OP isn't anything new, it's just basically an upgraded-package M3. There's enough minute differences in parts between the variants to fill a few textbooks, but on a fundamental level they're all roughly the same design. There have been QCB quick-change barrel models available for years and years, but the simple basic M2HB is still in use throughout most of the world in its standard format.


If we want to talk about interesting new high-ROF Browning derivatives, the Dragon M50 is quite sexy: http://www.dragonm50.com/

 

[Jaws]

What is impressing is the ability to shoot all 600 round of ammo in one burst!!!!
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4b6_1218058225

That's a lot of hot lead running down that barrel. The thing is really controlable. But it comes a bit on the heavy side tho.

I still like that Russian KORD. I don't know how the Russian can make their machine guns so light and keep them reliable. Kord is 22lbs lighter than M3

 

[MarineOne]

Those M2's won't go anywhere except to the front lines mounted on top of trucks in Afghanistan. The Marines won't stop using them .... they'll just "reassign" them to ground duty instead of air ops.



-K

 

[mcdonl]

I guess that means bad news for Saco Defense down the road from me

But, if our forces are getting a better gun, then the better good is served!

 

[5whiskey]

I believe the M2 holds the record as far as the longest gun in service period, not just the longest machinegun in service

I'm almost positive that this is correct, and I don't see the M2 going anywhere anytime real soon. It looks as if the "replacement" (which still appears to be JMBs basic design with a few tweaks) is meant primarily for air frames right now. M2HB will still be in service for quiet some time.

BTW, I've never known that headspacing during the barrel change was a "problem". Operator error is vastly different than a design error. Now doing a quick barrel change during a firefight isn't really feasible, but you if you're in the fight for your life and burn out a barrel you can repair the gun in the field after the action as opposed to shipping it off to the armourers. At any rate, headspacing the M2 isn't rocket science. A good, experienced 0331 team can do a barrel change as it's mounted in well under a minute.

 

[Shadow Man]

I don't think the headspacing was ever an issue with 0331 teams and the like. (Good operators who trained with their weapon systems) I think it had more to do with NG and Reservists who don't get as much hands-on time with their systems.

 

[as37692]

Shadow Man,
I do have to say I take somwhat of an a fence to your comment. I myself am National Guard, and have serviced two combat tours in IRAQ from 2005/2006 and 2007/2008 both time a M2 Gunner with Rout Clarence, and PSD. I can personal brake down, and or setup, and Head-Space a M2 is less than five minutes flat, and thats on top of a M1114 by myself, and know more than a few on my friends in the Guard that can do the same.
On the other hand I seen a great number of Active Duty Army personal, that don’t know what they are doing at all when it comes to the M2. Now this is not to say that all National Guard, and Reservists are up to speed on all weapons in service. God only knows! I work full time in a BDE S1 Office now (Death by paper work, for a 12B) and the people I work with can barely even qualify on there assigned weapon. But a lot of us in the Guard are combat soldier’s, and do train a great deal with person issued, and crew served weapons.

 

[James T Thomas]

field expedient

"Shadow Man or as37692:"

I had learned in Advanced Infantry Training at Ft. Lewis a makeshift
headspace gage, but now, I forgot to take my memory pill, and have forgotten.

Do either of you know what that might be?

And yes, with the standard threads on the rear; turn it to full contact, and then back it off two clicks.

In my older age cynicism, it appears to me that the $60k versus $14k has something to do with it being outmoded.

 

[Shadow Man]

as37692: You know, you're perfectly correct: many NG and Reserve units do know exactly what they are doing, and in some instances will know their stuff better than some AD units. When I typed that, I was overwhelmed by the memory of a NG unit lighting up my unit with their M2's and 240's...what a horrific two minutes that was. I couldn't help but wish that their headspacing had been off. I meant no offence to you, it was merely intended as an observation that NG and Reserve units do not have the same amount of time allotted for weapons familirization (sp?) as AD combat-oriented units do.

And Mr. Thomas, I cannot think of what you are referring to. I'm sorry.

 

[Wes Janson]

I'm almost positive that this is correct, and I don't see the M2 going anywhere anytime real soon. It looks as if the "replacement" (which still appears to be JMBs basic design with a few tweaks) is meant primarily for air frames right now. M2HB will still be in service for quiet some time.

It's not even a replacement for the M2HB. It's a replacement for other M2-derived designs which were already in use aboard rotary-wing aircraft, IIRC. I don't think anyone's ever been sticking unmodified M2 Heavy Barrel ground guns onboard of helicopters, save perhaps rare instances of necessity.

In my older age cynicism, it appears to me that the $60k versus $14k has something to do with it being outmoded.

The M3M is an upgraded, product-improved higher-ROF M3 variant package. $60k is ludicrous, but it's still quite a bit of high-quality hardware involved in one of those setups.

 

[as37692]

Thank you Shadow Man for that.
And I must say I can feel your pain on Blue on Blue, I remember in 06 when some kids from the 101 fired on one of are Buffalos coming in the ECP late at night. I said kids because, how in hell can you mistake a Buffalo for any type of IA/IP or insurgent truck?
That’s just something you can never forget or let go.

Ms Thomas, I’m with Shadow Man, I have no idea on what you would use for a makeshift headspace gage, and after 45B training (Small Arms Repair) there is no way I would attempt to do so.
The M2 is best Heavy Machine going, but you have to give her respect, and use the right tools to take care of her.

 

[50 Shooter]

What FN did was buy up all of the M3 aircraft 50's that our military wasn't using and made them better. M3's have always had a higher rate of fire then the M2's but basically used the same internals. With the higher ROF the M3's were destroying the internals.

FN redesigned the the internals and added parts to make the M3M as close to perfect as you could get it. The M3M is probably the best thing that's happened to JMB's original design. It's still a .50 BMG, so for those of you that think the .50 is going anywhere you're wrong. What you're seeing is the next evolution of one of the best machine guns every built.