Ballistic gelatin test results : 9x19mm Luger 124gr +P Speer Gold Dot (IWBA 4-layer d

[Brass Fetcher]

Special thanks to loplop for funding this test in full.

Cartridge : 9x19mm Luger Speer 124gr +P Gold Dot JHP (Part # 23617)

Firearm : Glock 26 (3.5" barrel length)

Block Calibration : All depths corrected (From 11.2cm @ 599 ft/sec)

Shot 1 - Impacted at 1215 ft/sec, penetrated to 14.3" and was recovered at 0.502" average diameter.

Shot 2 - Impacted at 1196 ft/sec, penetrated to 14.4" and was recovered at 0.509" average diameter.

Shot 3 - Impacted at 1218 ft/sec, penetrated to 14.3" and was recovered at 0.514" average diameter.

Shot 4 - Impacted at 1216 ft/sec, penetrated to 14.4" and was recovered at 0.494" average diameter.

Shot 5 - Impacted at 1216 ft/sec, penetrated to 14.4" and was recovered at 0.503" average diameter.

As you might notice, the bullets all penetrated the length of the gelatin block. This was because the block had lower viscosity than the 'perfect' block. All bullets penetrated the back of the block, two struck the face of a 60lbf bag of playsand and fell to the deck. The actual penetration of these bullets was determined as (16.0-1.7) inch. The -1.7" came from the correction formula. 3 of the bullets penetrated ~ 0.3" into loosely-packed sand. I went ahead and equated that to 0.1" of gelatin (a modest estimate, actual penetration should be a little bit deeper).

The five shots were fired from 10' distance into a gelatin block faced with 4 layers of loosely-layered 12.5ounce denim fabric. There are two calibration BBs in this block - the first was fired to ~ 11.3cm, but the impact velocity was not recorded due to a chronograph malfunction.

 

[mlandman]

WOW talk about consistent loads!

Thanks for the info!

These compare favourably to 357 tests on 158gr Speer Gold Dot JHP on Brass Fetcher's site.

 

[Gordon]

That looks like a good carry load for my 26 !

 

[PPGMD]

I like your tests, but I really wish you used the same length of barrel within the calibers so we can compare your results a bit more easily. I believe most of your other JHP 9mm results are with a 4" barrel.

 

[briansp82593]

wow fast follow up with the material, those sure look nasty... if you could for your next test any caliber find (if possible) some black talons to test i would love to see the "claws" i hear soo much about and hell its just cool anyway

 

[Lennyjoe]

I've always been a big fan of Gold Dot JHP bullets. They even look good when fully mushroomed.

I've used the Black Hills 124r +P with the Gold Dot JHP bullet in both my BHP and G19 with great accuracy.

 

[ARTiger]

Well done JE 223 (and thanks Lop for $ubsidizing). That looks like a great loading for the 9mm. Haven't seen one to sway me away from 127 gr. +P+ Ranger SXT's yet, but that's as close as any have come.

 

[RyanM]

Not very good. They overexpand and underpenetrate in bare gel, and they penetrate decently but have a terrible expanded diameter through clothing.

Why is it that, no matter what the test results are, at least a dozen people say "wow, that looks like good stuff!"? I think you could test 2.7mm Kolibri, and you'd be getting the same responses. Ooh, I just thought up a great test...

 

[boomstik45]

Gosh Ryan. So what should we be buying? Oh, and we'll be waiting on your ballistic test data and pic-attached results as well.

 

[boomstik45]

No, really I wasn't so happy with the expansion/penetration completely either. But this is a one-time thing. And they're probably still a good load, depending on what you want them to do. Which means they won't be for everybody.

 

[Soybomb]

Thanks for the works, looks like under expansion and over penetration for my tastes. I'd like to see something like the ra9t out of a short barrel.

Out of curiosity what does it cost you to put together a block of jello? It isn't exactly cheap is it? Did you have to setup a dedicated fridge with a temperature controller for it?

 

[mdao]

WOW talk about consistent loads!

Thanks for the info!

These compare favourably to 357 tests on 158gr Speer Gold Dot JHP on Brass Fetcher's site.

Yeah, but somewhat unfavorably compared to the .38 SPL FBI Load.

Remington 158gr +P LHP. Was fired through the IWBA 'heavy clothing', 4-layer denim test (12.5 ounce denim fabric was used). Impacted at '551 ft/sec' (chronograph malfunction), penetrated to 11.5" and expanded to 0.592" average diameter.

Course, that's an amazingly consistent load, barrier or no barrier.

Shot 1 - Remington 158gr +P LHP. Impacted at unknown velocity (chronograph malfunction), penetrated to 12.6" and expanded to 0.592" average diameter.

Cartridge : Remington 158 grain +P lead hollowpoint ('FBI load') (Load # R38S12) Average corrected penetration was 11.6" ± 0.031" Average recovered diameter was 0.595 ± 0.0005”

Shot 1 - Remington 158gr +P LHP. Impacted at unknown velocity (chronograph malfunction), penetrated to 12.6" and expanded to 0.592" average diameter.

Cartridge : Remington 158 grain +P lead hollowpoint ('FBI load') (Load # R38S12)
Shot 1 = 11.5 ± 0.031" penetration (corrected, uncertainty approximate)
Shot 2 = 11.5 ± 0.031" penetration (corrected, uncertainty approximate)
Shot 3 = 11.8 ± 0.031" penetration (corrected, uncertainty approximate)
Shot 4 = 11.3 ± 0.031" penetration (corrected, uncertainty approximate)
Shot 5 = 11.0 ± 0.031" penetration (corrected, uncertainty approximate)
Average final diameter = 0.592 ± 0.0005"

Looks like old tech still wins out when it comes to terminal ballistic performance.

 

[HGUNHNTR]

A big THANK YOU for the time, money, and effort you put into this test.

I have always considered the Gold Dot for personal protection, but always went with another bullet. This test may have changed my mind. Great test.

 

[wally]

... Gold Dot JHP bullets. They even look good when fully mushroomed.

If how they look after being dug out of gel influences your buying decision, that's one of the the thing they will optimize in the design to "justify" the premium price.

I love looking at these test results, but they just reinforce my decision to worry more about where I put the bullet on the target than which bullet brand it is. I buy whatever JHP has the best price when I need more. As long as the worst case penetration is over 10" I'll buy it when "on sale", although I give preference to 12+" penetration loads, but this is not always possible with the sub-compacts I generally carry.

Its the short barrel tests that interest me most, performance won't get worse with another inch or two of barrel length, but what is lost with the short barrel is what I really care about and why despite my love for the .45ACP I've pretty much given up on it in sub 4" guns choosing .40S&W instead for better penetration.

YMMV.
--wally.

 

[oldrifleman]

Thanks for the "heads-up!"

JE223,

Thanks for doing the tests... Just happens that's my standard load-out for my two Beretta M9A1s, with their 4.9" barrels... I'll sleep better now, knowing that they'll penetrate as well as they do...

oldrifleman, out...

 

[loplop]

I like your tests, but I really wish you used the same length of barrel within the calibers so we can compare your results a bit more easily. I believe most of your other JHP 9mm results are with a 4" barrel.

Whip our your checkbook, then. I specc'd the barrel length because it's the closest length to what I carry most often (SIG P239 3.6" or Hk P2000 3.6").

Comments on the test: I went back and forth on whether I wanted a light clothing, or a heavy clothing test. But after discussing with John and thinking it over, I went for heavy clothing. The bare gelatin tests indicated that the round was very aggressively expanding, somewhat limiting penetration. Both John and I surmised that the round was designed for barrier performance (clothing, glass, whatever) and that expansion would be less/penetration greater in a barrier test.

I chose the heavy clothing test because I figured it would give us an idea of what would happen at the other end of the spectrum vs. bare gelatin. FWIW, John indicates that the 4-later denim test is more difficult than the FBI "heavy clothing" test, which is designed to simulate winter clothing. Clothing less than "heavy" should be somewhere between these two spectrums.

Although the expansion characteristics in this test may not have pleased some posters, they are about what I'd expect from a Gold Dot, and I think the performance through an atypically heavy barrier is very good. John's numbers don't indicate that this is an overpenetrating round, and it is still well within FBI recommended guidelines when it doesn't open up as much (after passing through the heavy barrier). I think this makes it an excellent self-defense load. Penetration between 10 and 14 inches means the round should not exit your attacker's body, which of course is what we look for in defensive rounds. Expansion between 50 and 75 caliber to stop the attack as quickly as possible, without causing undue harm to the attacker. Yes, I think this is a good round.

My guess is this round will exhibit good, consistent performance in other FBI tests, auto glass, metal, etc. Since I am a citizen CCW'r, I don't find those tests germane, and so will not be pursuing them. If others would like to fund further testing of this round, please do so.

I'm not surprised the NYPD carries this load; it seems to be quite consistent, with good terminal performance. One of the reasons I chose to investigate this round is the implicit recommendation by the NYPD.

+1 Wally. I think the most important issue for a CCW'r is putting the rounds where they need to go. To a certain extent, many of these tests look very similar. I used to use plain 'ol Winchester White Box "Personal Protection" JHP's which can be found at places like Walmart, etc. My last box had some funny sounding reports, though (not squibs), and I suspect there might have been some problems with that lot. I sought out a more consistent load, which is why I'm here. I think the WWB would have served me just fine as a CCW'r, although the lack of consistency in that last box made me worry.

 

[boomstik45]

I don't tend to use the shorter barrel weapons. But Wally is on to something. With barrels shorter than 4", .40 IS a better cartridge for penetration in most cases. As long as the accuracy and follow-up shots are there.

 

[RyanM]

Gosh Ryan. So what should we be buying? Oh, and we'll be waiting on your ballistic test data and pic-attached results as well.

Or you could look at JE223's website and find some better loads.

Personally, I like 180 gr .40 cal Golden Saber. Not tested by him yet, but in other tests, it penetrates 13-14" and expands to about 0.72".

 

[Rob96]

Ya gotta love the 124gr+p Gold Dot.

 

[Brass Fetcher]

One thing that I have found to be really interesting, in doing the gelatin tests and reading the follow-up posts on THR, is that everyone seems to have their own idea of what is a good load.

Personally, I have been shooting with a gent who fired a JHP (his favorite load/brand) that went about 8" in the gelatin. The reaction was 'Wow... that's a deep penetrator'. It was hard to keep a straight face, , and pretty much pointless to talk about the FBI minimum depth of 12". But, what I think is very good is that people are starting to look at gelatin tests and are starting to be more concerned about the terminal performance of their bullets... whatever depth/expansion/velocity a person is looking for, I hope that the tests that I publish at least give a person an idea of what to expect of a cartridge and some extra confidence in their defensive capability...

 

[Chem Geek]

Any hope of seeing some .357 Sig tested?

 

[Soybomb]

Gosh Ryan. So what should we be buying? Oh, and we'll be waiting on your ballistic test data and pic-attached results as well.

I don't see why the hostility toward ryan for giving his honest impression of the rounds performance. Was he to just praise them for looking pretty as nearly everyone else did?

Would I use them? Sure. But when we talk about terminal ballistics with the major brands of jhp's we're splitting hairs. If it comes from modern federal, speer, winchester, or remington production (ditch your silvertips, hydrashoks, and black talons) its probably going to be fine and you should worry more about if you can do your job than if the bullet can do its. I agree with Ryan though that if you really want to pick it apart, I've seen tests that make other rounds look like superior performers.

 

[Brass Fetcher]

As far as .357SIG ... Would you like to see 6 rounds of Corbon DPX 125 grain and 6 of Federal 125gr JHP? That test should be done within the next two weeks.

 

[Chem Geek]

JE223 As far as .357SIG ... Would you like to see 6 rounds of Corbon DPX 125 grain and 6 of Federal 125gr JHP? That test should be done within the next two weeks.

Sounds good to me, but I'd like to see Golddot as well.

 

[loplop]

Would I use them? Sure. But when we talk about terminal ballistics with the major brands of jhp's we're splitting hairs. If it comes from modern federal, speer, winchester, or remington production (ditch your silvertips, hydrashoks, and black talons) its probably going to be fine and you should worry more about if you can do your job than if the bullet can do its.

+1. I'm fine with this round, and bought a case (1k) for the next portion: practice.