Ballistic Knifes
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Blade_Zero
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alwilliam,
Thanks for those pics of the real "Spetsnaz Ballistic Knife". Are you sure it's of Russian origin, it certainly looks to be of higher quality.
I assume it was the forerunner to the NRS series of silent shooting knives. The problem with powered knife blades, arrows or crossbow bolts, is that they kill slowly, via blood loss. There is no point in silently shooting an enemy sentry and then have him squeeling like a stuck pig for the next ten minutes, so these projectiles are typically coated with a poison like cyanide, curare or strychnine. This presents a significant danger to the operator of such devices.
You guys are correct about a suppressed & slide locked 9mm pistol being equivlent in performance to the spetsnaz line of silent gadgets, particullarly if a wipe can is employed.
So why all the gadgets? The Soviets suffered from a huge technological inferiority complex in relation to the west and tended to globally overcompensate via mechanical gadgets, for example,
The caspian sea monster,
Under water assualt rifles,
Suitcase Nukes,
Atomic powered strategic bombers
and of course all sorts of silent and/or disguised small arms.
Thanks for those pics of the real "Spetsnaz Ballistic Knife". Are you sure it's of Russian origin, it certainly looks to be of higher quality.
I assume it was the forerunner to the NRS series of silent shooting knives. The problem with powered knife blades, arrows or crossbow bolts, is that they kill slowly, via blood loss. There is no point in silently shooting an enemy sentry and then have him squeeling like a stuck pig for the next ten minutes, so these projectiles are typically coated with a poison like cyanide, curare or strychnine. This presents a significant danger to the operator of such devices.
You guys are correct about a suppressed & slide locked 9mm pistol being equivlent in performance to the spetsnaz line of silent gadgets, particullarly if a wipe can is employed.
So why all the gadgets? The Soviets suffered from a huge technological inferiority complex in relation to the west and tended to globally overcompensate via mechanical gadgets, for example,
The caspian sea monster,
Under water assualt rifles,
Suitcase Nukes,
Atomic powered strategic bombers
and of course all sorts of silent and/or disguised small arms.
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Welcome to THR, Blade_Zero.
blade is russian for sure.......
Soviet 007 type gadgets are the top of the heap as far as the most intricate and well built. US built "spy" items are crude.
We put our cash in to item like stleath bombers the USSR built sugar coated platnium pellet fireing umbrellas....good god.
Soviet 007 type gadgets are the top of the heap as far as the most intricate and well built. US built "spy" items are crude.
We put our cash in to item like stleath bombers the USSR built sugar coated platnium pellet fireing umbrellas....good god.
Blade_Zero
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Thanks for the welcome HSO,
alwilliam,
I don't want this post to be interpreted as combative, at least three of us here share a common interest in these impractical devices. However I can't help being a little suspicious about the origin of the higher quality ballistic knife. Are you aware of any official Soviet nomenclature relating to this knife?
The silent shooting knives have such provenance, Nozh Razvedchika Strelayushiy, or Scout Shooting Knife, with a numeric suffix to designate it's iteration of which there are at least three.
I'm not trying to impune your character in any way, the reason I'm asking is because I have a thread of my own on the subject and would like to be as accurate as possible. I'm afraid I misappropriated two of your photos of the "fake ballistic knife" when composing this thread, sorry about that.
Most western block special forces and intelligence operatives are far more pragmatic about their equipment. The closest thing to a defensive gadget they would have used would be the Walther TPH chambered in .22lr, some suppressed, most not.
In fact, U.S. special forces would be using mostly standard military issue kit, except for the humiliating failure of operation Eagle Claw, this was the impitus for Ronald Reagan to fund the development of equipment to make such future missions feasible, specialised aircraft & pilots, in flight refueling of helicopters, Global Positioning Equipment, Satelite Commo, Night Vision, Body Armour, ect.
alwilliam,
I don't want this post to be interpreted as combative, at least three of us here share a common interest in these impractical devices. However I can't help being a little suspicious about the origin of the higher quality ballistic knife. Are you aware of any official Soviet nomenclature relating to this knife?
The silent shooting knives have such provenance, Nozh Razvedchika Strelayushiy, or Scout Shooting Knife, with a numeric suffix to designate it's iteration of which there are at least three.
I'm not trying to impune your character in any way, the reason I'm asking is because I have a thread of my own on the subject and would like to be as accurate as possible. I'm afraid I misappropriated two of your photos of the "fake ballistic knife" when composing this thread, sorry about that.
Most western block special forces and intelligence operatives are far more pragmatic about their equipment. The closest thing to a defensive gadget they would have used would be the Walther TPH chambered in .22lr, some suppressed, most not.
In fact, U.S. special forces would be using mostly standard military issue kit, except for the humiliating failure of operation Eagle Claw, this was the impitus for Ronald Reagan to fund the development of equipment to make such future missions feasible, specialised aircraft & pilots, in flight refueling of helicopters, Global Positioning Equipment, Satelite Commo, Night Vision, Body Armour, ect.
Blade_Zero
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The purported advantage of a powered blade projectile was it's lack of range sensitivity in comparison to throwing knives. This premise is valid in respect to the conventional "rotating throw" style, where the tip of the rotating blade will only be in correct alignment to the target at certain distances. If the target is offset from these range increments the knife will bounce off.
However, Spetsnaz primarily use a spinless throw, where inertia & drag are the stabilizing factors rather than gyroscopic effect. The tip of the blade is constantly oriented towards the target and thus is effective for the entire duration of it's flight, similar to an arrow, bolt or powered blade.
Check out the demo below, the position of the index finger is critical. They presumably employ a similar technique when throwing their shovels.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5417077174673549302
I have some additional pics of the NRS-2 & NRS-3 knives, let me know if you want them posted.
However, Spetsnaz primarily use a spinless throw, where inertia & drag are the stabilizing factors rather than gyroscopic effect. The tip of the blade is constantly oriented towards the target and thus is effective for the entire duration of it's flight, similar to an arrow, bolt or powered blade.
Check out the demo below, the position of the index finger is critical. They presumably employ a similar technique when throwing their shovels.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5417077174673549302
I have some additional pics of the NRS-2 & NRS-3 knives, let me know if you want them posted.
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This is a greatly informative thread. A year or two back I was trying to find info on ballistic knives, and I couldn't find anything anywhere.
All that I had known was that I saw adds for the knock offs in soldier of fortune 10 + years ago with vague references to Russian special forces.
Any more pics or info would be great (I love spy gadgets, and you just don't see many knife based gadgets)
All that I had known was that I saw adds for the knock offs in soldier of fortune 10 + years ago with vague references to Russian special forces.
Any more pics or info would be great (I love spy gadgets, and you just don't see many knife based gadgets)
Blade_Zero
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NRS-1 4 shot chambered for .22LR.
This is actually a Norinco clone issued to Chinese SF's, the sheath dosn't appear to be OEM, I would expect a polymer unit similar to the AK47 bayonet.
NRS-2 single shot chambered for SP-4 ammo
NRS-3 4 shot chambered for SP-4 ammo
Some background to silent amunition:
In 1967, Aircraft Armaments Inc.(AAI) produced the Quiet Special Purpose Revolver (QSPR). In .44 Magnum calibre, this ammunition was manufactured for use by ‘tunnel rats’ in Vietnam. Using a specially modified ‘S’ series Model 29 Smith and Wesson, the cartridge fired 12 small tungsten carbide cube projectiles by way of a captured piston assembly within the case. Less than twenty Model 29s were modified by having their cylinders reamed out to accept the modified cartridge. The standard barrel was completely removed, and in its place a smoothbore ‘mud barrel’ was inserted, which had a larger inner and outer diameter. The revolver could then be safely fired with a plug of clay or mud in this shorter (about 40mm) barrel.
(From the S&W Handguns 2002 Special Collector's Edition)
While effective, the project was abandoned by the U.S. military, the Soviets however, spotted the advantages of a compact silent weapon for spec & intel operations. They adopted the design concept and developed the SP-3 silent amunition which was designed for a rifled rather than smoothbore barrel, for extended accurate range.
When the SP-3 round was fired, the protruding telescopic piston precluded it's application in an autoloading design. The SP-4 design will function in semi-automatic designs as it's cylinderical tungsten bullet also serves as the piston. The brass covered tip of the round appears to be the only section to engage the rifling. The SP-4, costs $50 to produce, is accurate out to 25M and is claimed to be armour piercing, soft armour presumably.
This is actually a Norinco clone issued to Chinese SF's, the sheath dosn't appear to be OEM, I would expect a polymer unit similar to the AK47 bayonet.
NRS-2 single shot chambered for SP-4 ammo
NRS-3 4 shot chambered for SP-4 ammo
Some background to silent amunition:
In 1967, Aircraft Armaments Inc.(AAI) produced the Quiet Special Purpose Revolver (QSPR). In .44 Magnum calibre, this ammunition was manufactured for use by ‘tunnel rats’ in Vietnam. Using a specially modified ‘S’ series Model 29 Smith and Wesson, the cartridge fired 12 small tungsten carbide cube projectiles by way of a captured piston assembly within the case. Less than twenty Model 29s were modified by having their cylinders reamed out to accept the modified cartridge. The standard barrel was completely removed, and in its place a smoothbore ‘mud barrel’ was inserted, which had a larger inner and outer diameter. The revolver could then be safely fired with a plug of clay or mud in this shorter (about 40mm) barrel.
(From the S&W Handguns 2002 Special Collector's Edition)
While effective, the project was abandoned by the U.S. military, the Soviets however, spotted the advantages of a compact silent weapon for spec & intel operations. They adopted the design concept and developed the SP-3 silent amunition which was designed for a rifled rather than smoothbore barrel, for extended accurate range.
When the SP-3 round was fired, the protruding telescopic piston precluded it's application in an autoloading design. The SP-4 design will function in semi-automatic designs as it's cylinderical tungsten bullet also serves as the piston. The brass covered tip of the round appears to be the only section to engage the rifling. The SP-4, costs $50 to produce, is accurate out to 25M and is claimed to be armour piercing, soft armour presumably.
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alwilliam, Balde_Zero,
You've both advanced our understanding of real ballistic knives and the other exotic knife/firearm hybrids. Please continue. This is an area that I'm woefully ignorant of and eagerly await any other information you two gentlemen care to share.
You've both advanced our understanding of real ballistic knives and the other exotic knife/firearm hybrids. Please continue. This is an area that I'm woefully ignorant of and eagerly await any other information you two gentlemen care to share.
alwilliam, Blade_Zero,
You've both advanced our understanding of real ballistic knives and the other exotic knife/firearm hybrids. Please continue. This is an area that I'm woefully ignorant of and eagerly await any other information you two gentlemen care to share.
You've both advanced our understanding of real ballistic knives and the other exotic knife/firearm hybrids. Please continue. This is an area that I'm woefully ignorant of and eagerly await any other information you two gentlemen care to share.
loandr.
Member
Ohhhh now you've done it get Al stated on a thread as such and its going to be a Loooong night (Thread) 
In a good way
BBG/LD
get Al stated on a thread as such and its going to be a Loooong night (Thread) In a good way BBG/LD
BROTHER BBG ....I wish I had the time to post another "exotic weapons" info thread.
B-Z hats off on the AAI info....good stuff that very few know about.
I have 1 round and also a few of the tungsten shot XM 45acp tunnel rounds.
Good research BLADE Z
B-Z hats off on the AAI info....good stuff that very few know about.
I have 1 round and also a few of the tungsten shot XM 45acp tunnel rounds.
Good research BLADE Z Ohen Cepel
Member
I think it's a foolish law like banning switch blades, or short barrelled shotguns (or rifles), or stocks on pistols.
However, I find ALL of the above more useful than shooting a knife blade at someone. I think you're better off with the knife in your hand!
Of all the stupid things the gov't restricts this one is NOT on my daily concern list.
However, I find ALL of the above more useful than shooting a knife blade at someone. I think you're better off with the knife in your hand!
Of all the stupid things the gov't restricts this one is NOT on my daily concern list.
Blade_Zero
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Glad you liked the info guys, it did take a while to get it together. Please feel free to spread the pics & text around, that's what the net is for. We all know & accept that they're not practical but these gadgets captivate the little boy inside us all. That little boy can be satisfied to a certain degree by the G.R.A.D.22. The knife produced for the U.S. collector market. It had an integral .22lr 5 shot revovler, inspired by the NRS-1 which was also chambered for .22lr. Sadly GRAD is now defunct potential customers baulked at the AOW background check.
We spoke a little earlier about the lack of such kit in the arsenal of western special forces & intel operatives. That's because that route has been explored and judged not to be effective, we're talking about the WWII SOE era. The link below has some examples, including the spring loaded dart pen.
Ultimately, pocket pistols & covert edged weapons were considered to be the most effective, the throughput of which can still be witnessed today e.g. the HAK, LWS & R9. At some point pocket stick techniques have been incoprorated into the operatives' defensive schema too.
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=16132
That's it, I'm spent.
We spoke a little earlier about the lack of such kit in the arsenal of western special forces & intel operatives. That's because that route has been explored and judged not to be effective, we're talking about the WWII SOE era. The link below has some examples, including the spring loaded dart pen.
Ultimately, pocket pistols & covert edged weapons were considered to be the most effective, the throughput of which can still be witnessed today e.g. the HAK, LWS & R9. At some point pocket stick techniques have been incoprorated into the operatives' defensive schema too.
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=16132
That's it, I'm spent.
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Sniper X
Member
I have one, it's called a BOW!
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