Ballistics help

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newbuckeye

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I need some help with ft lbs, muzzle velocity, etc of factory ammo.

Is there a general rule that says a lighter bullet will have more speed or energy? I think heavier bullets have more umph (kinetic?) energy, and in my experience, lighter bullets tend to have a little more recoil.

Here is the scenario.

I have some Winchester ranger for .40sw. 135 gr jhp. I can't find them in a ballistic table anywhere on Winchester web site. 165 and 180 gr, yes, not the 135's.

With so many options in things like recoil spring strength resulting in failure to feed in brand new weapons, how much of it has to do with the stuff you are trying to shoot? Common sense says a lot, but never having shot anything over a chronograph or reloaded, and having limited time and money to experiment for myself, I thought I would throw it out to the knowledgeable masses.....
 
A light bullet *usually* will have a higher muzzle velocity- however, it will usually slow down faster than a heavier projectile (depending on factors like it's BC), meaning that at some point down range, the heavier bullet may be faster than the lighter one that left the muzzle faster.

There is a difference between 'perceived recoil' and actual muzzle energy and a wide variety of factors effect this.

I really can't figure out what you are trying to ask, but I hope that helps.
 
I understand the down range energy concept. It's easier to get a VW bug rolling at 65 mph than a semi but the semi is a lot harder to stop.....right?


Sometimes my brain creates problems that it can't solve, I can't find the answers so I say (type) it out loud and people look at me funny.

So I guess in all this I am just looking for a Winchester ballistic table that I can compare these rounds to.
 
Kinetic energy is a function of the square of the velocity...

KE = 1/2 (Mass)(V)(V)

Recoil is a function of momentum

Momentum = (Mass)(Velocity)


Lighter bullets have more kinetic energy because they have higher velocity.
Heavier bullets have more momentum at the same muzzle velocity and will generate more recoil.
 
Are you breaking in a new gun and trying to find ammo that it will cycle reliably? Is the recoil a bit much? It sounds like you have a couple of different issues and don't want to waste a lot of ammo sorting them out by hit-or-miss.

I know the feeling. When you're shooting a new gun a lot of different things will occur to you the first couple of times out with it. If you can break them down into separate issues it's easier to address them. Or you could tell us what happened at the range - I had some failures to feed and then this other thing happened, I tried this, someone told me that, etc. It would help to know the model of gun and step by step what you did and what happened.
 
I have a new Rami .40sw. It came with 2 recoil springs, and you are right, I don't want to just go out and burn ammo just to see where it starts. If I could start with some educated opinions, it might...might...save me some ammo.

I guess it comes down to weather the weight of the bullet would require the lighter or heavier recoil spring?
 
Neat looking compact CZ? Nice choice. A stronger spring will usually cycle a gun more reliably - especially a compact semi-auto handgun. I would go with that for the first 500 rounds. I didn't know the RAMI came with two factory main springs, so I can't tell you if they're for different ammo types. The lighter one may just be for folks who have trouble working the slide for all I know.

Your gun will want up to 500 rounds to break in fully, so if you have the occasional feed problem at first don't sweat it. I've found that a fairly stout, brass cased round will make a balky gun cycle more reliably. Usually it's the really cheap, weak ammo or steel or aluminum cases that cause problems. I've shot a few CZ's but never owned one (yet!). Someone here or on one of the CZ forums can probably make a good break-in ammo recommendation. Keeping the gun properly lubricated and cleaning it after each range trip will help it cycle better. If it's still giving you problems after 500 rounds it's not acting like a CZ. Call customer service or try stiffer magazine springs.

You probably know this next point already but I'll throw it out there. I would not rely on a new handgun as a carry weapon until it's broken in and proven to be reliable. This applies especially to semi-autos. I generally don't carry a handgun until I've put a few hundred consecutive rounds through it without issue.

Nice gun. Enjoy!
 
I agree w/ not using it for CCW yet. My sp101 and SW CS40 are filling that until I know this one is reliable. This Rami .40 is so light but still 9 rounds, and my Rami 9mm has 14. Same size too, so when I finally get a IWB holster for it, I can interchange them. I need to find out if there is a different safety switch for them tho. I have a hard time sweeping it to the off position (short thumbs).
 
Is there a general rule that says a lighter bullet will have more speed or energy?

Sort of. With a given cartridge type and firearm, generally lighter bullets will have enough of a velocity advantage over heavier bullets to exceed them in kinetic energy; however, heavier bullets, under the same constraints, generally have greater momentum. There are some exceptions, though, and bullet design and construction can play an equally important role (at least) in determining effectiveness.

I think heavier bullets have more umph (kinetic?) energy,

Heavier bullets are harder to slow down but do not impart as much energy as quickly. All else being equal (a good theoretical exercise that is rarely achieved in practice, mind you), lighter bullets with higher velocity tend to penetrate hard, dry materials better, while heavier bullets tend to penetrate soft, wet materials better. These are just tendencies--one of many factors that go into how bullets actually behave.

and in my experience, lighter bullets tend to have a little more recoil.

Relative recoil is more a matter of individual perception than anything else. Some folks are more sensitive to how lighter bullets accelerate, while others are more sensitive to the greater momentum of heavier bullets.

I have some Winchester ranger for .40sw. 135 gr jhp. I can't find them in a ballistic table anywhere on Winchester web site. 165 and 180 gr, yes, not the 135's.

Note that the 135-grain loads from Winchester that I've seen are light loads by design (for customers who prefer light loads), so the general rules and tendencies do not necessarily apply. What is the product code (e.g. XM40HA)?

With so many options in things like recoil spring strength resulting in failure to feed in brand new weapons, how much of it has to do with the stuff you are trying to shoot? Common sense says a lot, but never having shot anything over a chronograph or reloaded, and having limited time and money to experiment for myself, I thought I would throw it out to the knowledgeable masses.....

Suffice to say that it can be a lot, which requires substantial testing of specific firearm and ammunition combinations that are intended to be used for defensive purposes. Some guns will put just about any ammo through reliably, but you won't really know until you try it.

Lighter bullets have more kinetic energy because they have higher velocity.

This is mitigated by the lower mass of the bullets, but taking all factors into account, lighter bullets do indeed tend to have more kinetic energy. However, this is not true for the 135-grain Winchester XM40HA (designed for reduced recoil), for example, which has lower kinetic energy than the heavier 165-grain RA40TA load (simply a more powerful load in general by design).

Heavier bullets have more momentum at the same muzzle velocity and will generate more recoil.

When considering common factory loads, heavier bullets also generally tend to have more momentum even at lower velocities.

As for recoil, technically it is defined in terms of momentum, so what you say is true, but that's not necessarily how people perceive recoil. For example, some loads that have lower momentum and recoil may still have a higher peak force that may also be reached more abruptly, and some people may say that it feels like it has more or harsher recoil.
 
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