Ballistics Help

[rodwha]

So I will be getting a .50 cal percussion Deerstalker for Xmas. Judging by the cost it must be the stainless version, which has shallow grooves intended for sabots/conicals.

I have 3F Triple 7, and Pyrodex P and RS, but I'd kinda like to stock up on one powder, which would be T7 as I would also use it in my Old Army with 240 grn Kaido bullets for hunting.

I'm thinking that if it has shallow grooved i might be better off starting with .490" RB instead of .495" and trying various patch thicknesses that don't require a hammer.

Looking at Hogdgon's site they don't give 3F Triple 7 info for PRB. Only 2F and for .490" RB. Is it possible to get into the ballpark with those figures? Ie use their 70 grn load for 60 grns of 3F? Anyone know what kind of difference the granulation makes? I want to say I've seen somewhere that a 10% difference is average.

I intend on sighting in at 100 yds as it makes it all much easier to do. And the rise isn't mush to deal with. I figure 100-125 yds would be about max as long as there isn't wind to speak of. Typically my shots have been right around 70-85 yds.

 

[rodwha]

It's not that I was good this year (I'm a Hancock, and we aren't known for being very good), but adamant about a muzzleloader when asked what i wanted this year. So don't get the wrong idea...

 

[brushhippie]

Whatever you decide to use, just read your patches they dont lie. I started with 50 grains and went up to 75 and mine (which is similar to yours) likes 55-60 grains of commercial powder 2FF (43 of mine)

 

[rodwha]

I see that burned and cut patches are bad. What do those tell you?
Where I'd be doing my testing (range) I wouldn't be able to retrieve them.
I figured i'd play with my RS and P just to get familiar, and eventually move on to the Triple 7, which is what I've been doing with my Old Army. I'm still usually shooting RS and a RB...

 

[mykeal]

There's really no mystery here. Dutch Schoultz's Black Powder Rifle Accuracy System lays it all out in pretty straightforward language. Best $20 I've ever spent in 35 years of black powder shooting.

 

[MCgunner]

Wait a miniute, this gun is intended for conicals and sabots? What's the rifling twist rate? I'm betting it's down around 1:32 or 1:28 and, if so, forget round ball accuracy at 100 yards at least in MY experience. My 1:48 CVA does okay with PRB, but my 1:24 Hawken Hunter Carbine SUX with 'em past 50 yards. If it's 1:48, okay, but I don't think it'd work with sabots worth a toot with that slow a twist.

As for 777, it don't shoot well in my Hawken, but I like it in my CVA Wolf inline, quite accurate. I use two 35 grain measures of 777 3F from my flask (70 grains by volume) in the CVA with a 385 grain Hornady great plains minie. Shoots about 2" groups at 100 yards. I use ONE measure of that in my ROA for a max charge behind a 220 conical (compressed) if I'm in the field for hunting, but normally change to a 30 grain spout and toss 30 grains pyrodex just for plinking. Anyway, yeah, I'm using 3F triple 7 in the rifle. It's supposed to be good for 150 grains BP, so I figure 70 grains 3F 777 ain't gonna stress things and it shoots REAL good. Whacked a 5 point DRT with it last year.

 

[rodwha]

The twist on both of their versions of Deerstalker is 1:48", but the blued model has deep grooves and the stainless has shallow grooves. Lyman's claims the former for PRB and the latter for conicals/sabots.

 

[brushhippie]

Well if you cant recover them, they cant tell ya nothin!...kidding. When you get to a point you are over loading they will start to get burnt, its kinda cool when you get your load just right they will come out damn near reusable.

 

[rodwha]

Since it seems common to read of people's advice to start at 60 grns and work up from there while using BP, it seems that 50 grns of 3F T7 ought to be a good starting point.

I'm not actually sure what gun she has bought me as I also threw the Pedersoli Country Hunter in there, but she knows I like stainless, and have mentioned the Lyman's Deerstalker many times. The ~$550 cost could be either rifle I suppose.

I'm assuming it's the stainless Deerstalker, in which case it will have .510" grooves. If this is correct, and I use .490" RB what sizes of patch should I start with?

Looking at Dixie i had seen 0.016" and 0.018" patches and Butch's, which didn't state the thickness. It seems as though 0.016" and .490" RB would be awfully tight in a .502x.510" bore. I don't want to need a hammer.

 

[brushhippie]

You know what Im not sure the size of patch, ET gave me a armload of .50 cal prelubed bore butter patches and I love em, gives you a bit of lube with each shot, in and out.

 

[rodwha]

As for lube I figured I'd start by trying the Gatofeo #1 lube since I have a bunch of it.

Thinking on that now is it possible that a hunting load ready and sitting there for a long time mess up the powder charge? Maybe a dry wad between?

If a little hammering is needed should it work with the ramrod once it's been hammered in short starter deep?

 

[brushhippie]

I dont think the lube will hurt the powder charge Ive had em loaded for awhile and they did fine, but a dry wad between wouldnt hurt anything. Gato's lube is good stuff you plan to heat it up and put your patches in it (this is my plan) or just smear it on? I expect either way would be fine. Mine doesnt require hammering, if its that tight Id use a thinner patch. Mine is the Bushwacker and like I was sayin I love it!

 

[rodwha]

I'm not sure how I will apply the lube yet. I had soaked my pistol wads and they seem to be over saturated.

With the remaining lube I poured it into soap molds and cut them into squares for using in the fashion of a crayon on my pistol bullets from Kaido.

I'm not sure if putting it in my pocket while at the range would be warm enough to make it smear, but I do know that held in the hand it becomes somewhat sticky.

I'm thinking that a .016" patch and a .490" RB would require a little hammering in a .502 x .510" bore as that would be .522". Right? Seems like I ought to try to find .010" patching.

I don't want to need to hammer my PRB down, though I understand that the tighter the fit, to some degree, the better the accuracy, and no doubt the power. I wouldn't mind it needing a little whack I suppose, but I don't want to need a mallet out in the field. There's enough stuff to need with you...

 

[rodwha]

Anyone know if the Lyman's works well with #10's? I'd really like to stock one size of caps, and my Old Army doesn't do well with CCI #11 mags, although the ToTW nipples I bought are supposed to be sized for #11's (I'm guessing the magnums are internally different), and Rem #11's are slightly large and need to be squeezed a bit.

I've been advised to try #10's.