Ballistics Questions .357 Magnum Vs. .223

[cslinger]

I have, what probably amounts to a stupid question. I am not a hunter but an reasonably knowledgeable regarding laws, humane killing of animals etc.

That being said most if not all states that allow rifle hunting will allow deer to be taken with a .357 magnum, correct?

Many states do not allow hunting of deer with a .223 caliber rifle. So are we saying a .357 magnum from say a lever gun puts more energy on target, within acceptable range limitations, then a compareable .223? Lets say for argument we are talking about ranges of 75 yards no more then say 100-110 yards.

Let's consider the use of proper ammunition for the task at hand as well. No FMJ milsurp stuff in .223 but a quality hunting round. The same with the .357 magnum a good solid 158 or so grain hunting round.

So does the .357 put more energy and therefore kill a deer quicker and more humanely then a comparable .223?

Just curious really.

Thanks
Chris

 

[Art Eatman]

There is no consistency from state to state, as to "What can be used to hunt deer."

The "no center-fire .22" rule probably goes back to the days when there weren't any bullets except varmint-type in .224 diameter. These were known to blow up and make a killing wound, but not a good stop within reasonable tracking distance.

A heavy bullet from a .357 will penetrate nicely. Generally, people who would hunt with a handgun are much better shots than the average "pistol toter".

I guess you could say it has more to do with practicality of the time the rule was written than with numbers on paper.

Art

 

[Subby]

Ditto on the law variations from state to state. Here in PA, it's any centerfire with an "all lead or expanding type bullet," for whitetails. But we're not allowed any type of semiauto rifles, even for small game. So you could build a .25 ACP Contender and use 35 gr. Gold Dots or whatever and that would be legal, but anything semi would get you 40 lashes. In WV, semis are allowed, and in my auditory experience, lots of fellas use them. And if I remember correctly, handguns need to be at least 4" and .357, so that .25ACP would get me thrown in the pokey down there. I don't know if kinetic energy is a real valuable judge in and of itself of putting big game down for the count. Look how close the ft-lbs are at 100 yds here (http://www.remington.com/products/a...e_ballistics_results.aspx?data=R220S1*R4570G). Mass, diameter, and shot placement count for a whole lot more than some mythical ft-lb number.

Sub

 

[MNgoldenbear]

Problem is, you can't just look at energy to determine effectiveness. Bullet shape and construction have a lot to do with how that bullet interacts with the target. If we went with the energy measure alone, a super-light bullet traveling at high speed should be the best (at least short to medium range) option. Picture putting a Hornet bullet in a 50 BMG. Problem is, even if the bullet holds together to get to the target, it may disintegrate in the outer layers of the target and not do enough internal damage. Right bullet, right velocity, right location.

 

[Sunray]

Up here, in Ontario, it's any centre fire for deer. The problem with .22 CF's isn't the power of the round, it's the bullet used in most factory ammo. Most of it, is loaded with varmint bullets that are totally unsuitable for deer. Yes, there are suitable bullets available, but if you don't reload, you'll have a problem finding ammo. Even if you can, the .223 doesn't have enough energy to cleanly kill the deer up here. 250 pounds and bigger are not uncommon.
The .357 out of a rifle is marginal. Ok under 100 yards, but...

 

[36fan]

The reason for the law (at least in Indiana) is the distance that the bullet will travel. It is so flat around here, a miss or an irresponsible shot with a rifle could result in the bullet ending up in someone's house, car, or someone, etc... The heavy handgun bullet (.357 mag w/ 4" barrel or greater) doesn't have near the range as a rifle.