"Ban Assault Clips!"

[The_Next_Generation]

Hey guys, I came across an article in the Seattle Times. The article cites the infamous statistic that "A gun in any home is four times more likely to be used to kill or injure a loved one in an unintentional or accidental shooting than it is to be used for self-defense." :banghead:

Of course, we are all aware that this is a blatant lie. What troubles me is that it was published in the paper as coming from a "reputable source", the spokesperson for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. I know I have mentioned this link before, but the JustFacts page on gun control is a fantastic compilation of information. It says the there were 613 fatal firearm accidents, and 15,698 emergency room visits for non-fatal firearm accidents in 2007. This amounts to about 45 incidents per day in the US. This information is cited from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and National Center for Injury Prevention and Control.

On the same page, they show the number of times firearms were used in 2000. "U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year." This information is cited from the National Center for Health Statistics.

I cannot help but feel agitated that such nonsense as presented by the Brady foundation would be circulated. Naturally, I became curious as to what ELSE these guys were throwing around. Here are some interesting sites:

http://banassaultclips.com/ --> Ban Assault Clips (the correct term is "high capacity magazine" )

http://www.stoptheguns.org/ --> A UK site, but is angering nontheless, especially given the recent movement to regulate bladed weapons.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts?s=1 --> Brady campaign "facts" page

http://www.bradycampaign.org/ --> Brady campaign home


The ignorance of these people irks me, what can we do to help them understand the factual side of things? Of course diplomacy is key.

Any other opinions or comments are, as always, welcome. I enjoy reading what you all have to say!

- The Next Generation

 

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

Why let the facts get in the way of a good lie?

 

[Lost Sheep]

You might mention that the article was in the "Ask Amy" column (at least I think that is the article you mention, as it was published in Anchorage Daily News today, on November 5). This column is printed across the country, and I think, in other places in the world as well.

"Ask Amy" is the successor to "Dear Abby" and has, of course, a LARGE following.

I sent Amy my comments, but did not try to argue over the facts, but rather with the fact that she asked the Brady Campaign for advice on a family matter and neglected to ask the NRA or CCRKBA (sorry, GOA, I left you out).

I suggested that she might be surprised by the answers from these organizations.

The issue was about a relative wanting to carry into a home where children were present, and the hosts were concerned about risk. I suggested the issue was about holding the family gathering hostage for personal reasons.

Lost Sheep

p.s. her email address is [email protected], but I suggest you read the article before sending comments. Keep them short, to the point (unlike my posts) and polite, please.

The column's archives are on "Askamy.com", but not until a day or two after publication. So, look for it on Monday, 11/7 or Sunday. The headline is "Family member wants to pack 'heat' during holiday visit"

 

[Fleet]

Ammo to fight back with

http://gunfacts.info/

 

[Konstantin835]

If I think about this too much I have a urge to bang my head against a wall and scream WHY!?!? The best way to counter this stupidity is to present the facts to people you know when/if the issue arrises. Talk about it as if it is common sense (it should be) and it will become common sense to the people you talk to.

 

[beatledog7]

Those who desperately want to believe something are rarely swayed by facts to the contrary.

 

[h-word]

But, I really like assault clips!

It's amazing what passes for journalism today.

 

[T Bran]

Assault clips....?
I thought that refered to movie trailers these days.
By now we should realize that most people would rather have their fears justified than read actual statistics that would alleviate them.
T

 

[valnar]

Not trying to start a war here, but how do you counter the argument that more gun deaths happen in America (by far) compared to our European counterparts. 'tis true.

I never have a good answer to that one, except the deflection of "more people die by.....cancer, heart disease, car crashes, etc"

 

[The_Next_Generation]

Valnar, are you talking about deaths as a percentage, or as a number? Because if you look at a country like England, their population is much smaller than that of the USA, so it would make sense that less deaths would occur.

 

[Jeeping]

valnar, can you please give a link? I just want to know for myself, not being an a$$.

 

[LeonCarr]

What the heck is an assault clip?

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[Shadow 7D]

With the minor fact that we have a less violent society overall

while you may be shot
you are much less likely to be assaulted or robbed

 

[valnar]

The Brady "facts" page link shows the number, but I've seen that other places too. I'm not sure where they get it from, but considering few other countries have as many guns as us, its not hard to believe.

That's the one figure I have a hard time explaining.

 

[The_Next_Generation]

Not necessarily..

Valnar,

Those other countries may have less gun incidents, but that does not mean they have lower crime rates.

An interesting article about England having the highest crime rate among western nations:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...rime-rate-than-the-US-says-Civitas-study.html

A key quote direct from the article, "For burglaries and robberies England and Wales had more crimes per 100,000 people than the USA."

I wonder why

Food for thought (what else would I post?)

- The Next Generation

 

[HKGuns]

I came across an article in the Seattle Times.

Move. Based on what I know of Seattle you won't miss the rain much anyway.

 

[valnar]

OK, thanks.

 

[The_Next_Generation]

HKGuns,

True, the rain can get pretty wet over here. But the mountaineering opportunities not 2 hours away keep me here!

- TNG

 

[Shadow 7D]

but here is what they do,
take Britian, where only criminals have guns (because even if yours is legal, you can't use it to protect yourself)

and then transfer the numbers STRAIGHT (as in not percatipa) across

so take the US 1/1000 300,000/300,000,000 (example) - so 300,000 over all
and take and GB at 10/1000 or 30,000/30,000,000 30,000

and do the magic of the Brady Bunch We are 10 times more 'violent'

GB has 30,000
US has 300,000

 

[Demos]

Valnar, I don't see why the death being caused by a gun matters. It is all about murder rates, not methods. If by banning guns and you lower gun deaths but you get more deaths by stabbings/beatings, then nothing was accomplished except denying law abiding citizens their rights. Guns do not cause violence and banning them won't alleviate violence it will just cause it to be carried out in different ways while making it more difficult for law abiding people to defend themselves.
A good example of this is the UK. Their gun laws are very very restrictive, so stabbings increased. This article shows that there were about 60,000 stabbings in the UK in 2007, while the number of firearm related homicides was low (59 in the 06-07 year) and 18,489 firearm offenses in that same time period according to this article from the BBC While according to this article that cites FBI data, in the US in 2007 there were 10129 firearm related homicides, but only 1817 from knives or other cutting instruments, and 2970 from other methods. So, if someone wants to hurt/kill someone else they will use what is at hand, and in the US that can more easily be a gun while in europe it will probably be a knife so that is what is used it is all just violence and the method doesn't matter, it will still happen.

 

[Lost Sheep]

Move. Based on what I know of Seattle you won't miss the rain much anyway.

Where to? If it is the same article I saw, it appeared today in every major city (and most newspapers) in the country. The "Ask Amy" column is syndicated.

Lost Sheep

 

[EvilGenius]

What the heck is an assault clip?

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

Something no one has used in about 80 years.

 

[Ohio Gun Guy]

The devil is in the details.

All Gun deaths are often rolled into statistics. IE: Suicides, murders, armed robberies, SELF DEFENSE, may all be added in to the gun "CRIME" Statistic.

I have not dug into the details lately, but the last 2-3 times, I have found that the numbers are typically compiled in the least favorable way to our side, even to the point of obvious bias.

 

[JayBird]

Not trying to start a war here, but how do you counter the argument that more gun deaths happen in America (by far) compared to our European counterparts. 'tis true.

I never have a good answer to that one, except the deflection of "more people die by.....cancer, heart disease, car crashes, etc"

Valnar....there are lots of things that can honestly be said.

First off, the US does not lead the world in murder.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Nor Homicide by firearms...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

While we do overwhelming lead the world in LEGAL ownership of firearms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_gun_ownership

As far as comparing things like England to the US....an honest look at England for over the past 100 years will show that the homicide rate in England has always been historically low....much lower than ours, when they did have legal ownership of firearms up until the 1990's. And since their ban, their homicide rate has not statistically dropped.

And at the same point that we have been buying more and more guns here, and have probably added maybe 80-100 million LEGALLY owned firearms in this country in the last 20 years, our homicide rate has been DROPPING. If more guns meant more homicide, why wouldnt our homicide rate be skyrocketing....instead of nosediving.

Some interesting facts about our homicide by firearm deaths.

Twenty percent of U.S. homicides occur in four cities with just 6% of the population—New York, Chicago, Detroit, and Washington, D.C.—and each has or, in the cases of Detroit (until 2001) and D.C. (2008) had, a requirement for a licence on private handguns or an effective outright ban (in the case of Chicago).

Evanston, Illinois, a Chicago suburb of 75,000 residents, became the largest town to ban handgun ownership in September 1982 but experienced no decline in violent crime. It has subsequently ended its ban as a result of the District of Columbia v. Heller Supreme Court case, upon a federal lawsuit by the National Rifle Association being filed the day after Heller was entered.

Among the 15 states with the highest homicide rates, 10 have restrictive or very restrictive gun laws

All three from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics

Basically, England does not have our violent gang culture....although....they are starting to have one now.

An interesting article...

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-01-29-ms13_N.htm

FBI: Burgeoning gangs behind up to 80% of U.S. crime

Criminal gangs in the USA have swelled to an estimated 1 million members responsible for up to 80% of crimes in communities across the nation, according to a gang threat assessment compiled by federal officials.

The bottom line
Our 'higher' homicide rate by firearm has more to do with differing socio-economic issues and most importantly the gang culture in this country than legal law abiding citizens owning firearm. Blaming it on the gun is just politics, misinformation, and a refusal to accept facts and face those real socio-economic problems.

 

[Sky]

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/11/...d-furious-proof-of-need-for-harsher-gun-laws/

Right on cue, Democratic lawmakers have begun to say the DOJ’s lethal and irresponsible Fast and Furious program underscores the need for stricter gun control

Many have speculated, while being accused by others, of wearing tin foil hats for their analysis of likely events transpiring.