Band of Brothers Question

[PinnedAndRecessed]

In "Band of Brothers", the "Crossroads" part, Easy Company is preparing to ambush some Germans.

As Easy Company is preparing, they have the Germans in their sights. At that point, the members of E Co begin sighting in their rifles. They start fiddling with the rear sight knobs.

When I first saw it, I thought it was bogus Hollywood stuff. Now someone says they were merely adjusting for elevation by turning one of the knobs and that that is standard operating procedure.

Question. What are they doing? Is this plausible? Or is it Hollywood?

On the Garand rear sight, is one knob for windage and one knob for elevation? Is it reasonable that they would adjust the sights at that point?

Maybe someone could watch that segment and tell me which knob they turned.

 

[ebd10]

Don't recall which knob they were turning, but the M-1 rear sight does indeed have one knob for elevation (left knob) and one for windage (right knob). Adjusting elevation for long range shots is something that the Army used to teach back when they expected recruits to learn known distance marksmanship.

 

[Vermont Guy]

Sounds reasonable. I doubt if ordinary infantry would have been trained to that level but paratroops were supposed to be special.

The M14 I used had the same rear sight. We trained at 200 to 500 yards and used different elevation settings at each range. We counted clicks of the knob to get to our pre determined setting.

As I recall the elevation knob also had markings that represented yards. The sight could be zeroed on a range and then a set screw could be loosened and the knob turned, without changing the sight, to line that yardage up with the index mark on the body of the sight. Then you could go up or down using the marks on the knob.

The range could have been estimated or they could have gotten it from maps. They seemed to have good maps.

Incedently the Springfield that preceded the M1 also had a rear sight that was calibrated for different yardage.

 

[Stickjockey]

They are adjusting for elevation/range, and yes, one of the knobs is elevation and the other is windage. Whether they would actually adjust the sights in a combat situation like this I can't say, as I am not a soldier. Whether it was historically accurate, only those who were there know for sure.

 

[johnmcl]

Range Adjustment

Hi all,

In that scene when they poked their collective GI noses over that roadway they were *really* close to the 7 Germans. They were moving the left hand knobs for elevation.

As I think about it, it was pitch black behind them. They probably moved the sights all the way to the bottom and then moved them up the requisite six clicks to the 100 yd position.

John

 

[ball3006]

You would think......

that they would pre set their sight adjustments BEFORE the Germans arrived at the ambush site. They knew where the Germans were going to pass through the area.........It is a hollywood thing like actors always racking their pistol/rifle/shotgun after they busted into someplace instead of being ready to rock and roll when the door is kicked in......chris3

 

[Rickstir]

The sights on my AK-47 have a "battle" setting. Now I'm not a balistic expert and I have never been in the military. According to the instruction book, this "battle" setting will place rounds in a one-meter square out to 1,000 yards. I guess that is really good if you are shooting full-auto or bursts. Would not be too exact one round at a time. Also, I am 60 and can't even see 1,000 yards! But it was fun to read and tell other novices about.
I will say one thing about that little honey, with the Russian 6 power scope I have on it, anything out to 250 yards is in serious trouble if I can get to a good shooting rest.

 

[cracked butt]

With an M1, after you zero the rifle, you turn the rear sight all the way down and count the clicks down. If you pick up the same rifle at a later time and want to make sure that its zeroed, you turn the sight all the way down and count the clicks back up. The same can be done with windage. Every rifle is different, some may only need 4 clicks to get a 100 yard zero, others might need 15. Mine requires 11 clicks up with ball ammo and 13 clicks up with my match loads.

 

[Kenneth Lew]

According to the instruction book, this "battle" setting will place rounds in a one-meter square out to 1,000 yards.

That must be some special match AK to get that type of group at 1,000 yards.

 

[30Cal]

They normally set the sight to the battle setting which is 300yds minus 2MoA (~230yd). If they're shooting someone upclose behind a sandbagged position, it's conceivable that you'd want to come down a click or two to make sure you got a clean hit otherwise the bullet is going to be a good 6" , maybe more above the point of aim.

 

[AK103K]

Dont bring up "battle sight" or "point blank zero", you'll just confuse Hollywood.

Fiddling with the sights is just like working the action on that pump shotgun, or cycling the slide on your .45, usually long after anyone with sense would have and just for "effect".

 

[nvshooter]

I'd ask my Uncle Frank. He was one of them. But he probably won't want to talk about it. Spielberg chased him for ten years to get his story, but Frank never gave in. My dad is mad at him for not telling his story and getting his exploits into the movie. Some of the stuff shown in the movie was actually done by my uncle because he was small, strong and didn't give a damn, but he isn't named and what he did is shown as being done by composite characters. It's been over 60 years since those days and he still has nightmares about what he saw and did.

 

[Taurus 66]

I saw it. The adjustment I always thought was for elevation.

Here's another one from the same movie:

Do you remember when "Bull" watched one of his men fixing a bayonette to the his rifle? Then the Searge says, "You won't shoot as straight with that thing on".

 

[Trebor]

That was a Hollywood thing.

Yes, the Garand has windage and elevation knobs. But, it was extremely rare for soldiers to use them in combat. The "battle site zero" for the Garand was to sight it in at 300 yards. That would allow hits on man sized targets, without hold over or hold under, out to 500 or 600 yards. Once sighted in, troops didn't generally fiddle with the knobs.

Btw, a rifle will shoot to a different point of aim with a bayonet attached. That part was more accurate.

 

[Taurus 66]

Btw, a rifle will shoot to a different point of aim with a bayonet attached. That part was more accurate.

God! That was me terrible spelling at it's worst, and you can't get me on too many. Geez, my spelling made it look french.

Yes, I understand there are acoustical resonance along a barrel upon firing which assist in truing the ballistic flight path. Example: Strapping of stock to barrel can interfere with a rifle's full potential at long ranges (common with lever action repeaters). Resting a barrel on a bipod rather than the stock, can affect long range shots, and etcetera ...

Attaching a bayonet to the rifle is not the best choice in any shooting combat. It would be better for close up hand to hand, where the enemy is at 20 feet or less.

 

[Roadkill]

My thought is that it was for hollywood effect. If you are up close just aim for their belt buckle. Few inches up or down won't matter. And if you are that close to bad guys you definitely aren't going to screw around with small stuff like that anyway. The combination of spincture restriction, cotton mouth, and the hope they don't open up first overrides most everything else. Long range, defensive position, sure. Made adjustments. Put out aiming stakes. Clear fields of fire. Close range or assaulting, no way.

rk

 

[akrafty1]

Ball3006, have you even seen the episode that is being discussed? They came to where the Germans were, not the other way around.

My question was when Winters was giving directions on who to shoot, "second from the left" the Germans continued walking about. How did they keep track of whos target was whos?

Damn they were good, the likes of which may never be seen again on this earth.

 

[YellowLab]

Although technically accurate, I doubt that all but the snipers in the unit (Shifty?) would have used the adjustment.

At 200yards, at night, how are you gonna sight them on a black front sight blade?

God Bless those soldiers, sight adjustment or not.

 

[Frandy]

My question was when Winters was giving directions on who to shoot, "second from the left" the Germans continued walking about. How did they keep track of whos target was whos?

Well, seems to me, someone is going to be second on the left when they open fire and whomever that is, that's who you shoot. No?

 

[BigG]

I think it is Hollywood BS. It doesn't seem likely that anybody in their right mind would be adjusting their sights before a firefight. Of course, by putting adjustment knobs on the sights, some snuffy would probably turn them. You heard about the monkey and the peanut, right?

 

[offthepaper]

Frandy
Well, seems to me, someone is going to be second on the left when they open fire and whomever that is, that's who you shoot. No?
--------------
I agree.
He's a target, not a prom date.