Comanche180
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My Dad's weaponry in WWII was a pair of mounted .50 cal machine guns. The vehicle was a B24 bomber. He was the tailgunner. 51 missions flown over Europe out of Italy. He didn't talk about it much.
Band of Brothers weapon question
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HoosierQ
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My uncle Bob fought in France, Austria, and Germany. He had the option of carrying a carbine but he said "I didn't want to get that close to the Germans" so he stayed with the Garand.
During a river crossing, his boat got hit and it sank like a rock, along with his mortar, his helmet, and his rifle, right to the bottom. He and other unarmed men were detailed to carry the wounded to the rear.
He said when he got to the rear "there were lots of dead guys laying around by that time so I was able to get a rifle and a helmet and go back up". He said this in a very dry matter of fact way. I suspect that a lot of weapons were aquired in this manner during WWII...where loosing 100 men in one engagement was not atypical.
During a river crossing, his boat got hit and it sank like a rock, along with his mortar, his helmet, and his rifle, right to the bottom. He and other unarmed men were detailed to carry the wounded to the rear.
He said when he got to the rear "there were lots of dead guys laying around by that time so I was able to get a rifle and a helmet and go back up". He said this in a very dry matter of fact way. I suspect that a lot of weapons were aquired in this manner during WWII...where loosing 100 men in one engagement was not atypical.
I think Gramps was pulling your leg. The 1919 was fired from a tripod, or if the A6 version was fitted with a bipod and shoulder stock. You can't hold it and fire like a rifle or from hip a la Rambo. While I don't doubt that some who had to carry them rigged up slings, I've never seen an issued sling (and the gun as issued has no attachment points for one). I do own a 1919, so I have a bit of familiarity with them.
stoney1666
Member
I was in F-2-3 3rd MarDiv in 1958 and we had 13 man squad with 3 BARs per squad, 3 squads per platoon, so 9 BARs per platoon, the rest had M1s, no carbines, the only ones I ever saw was at supply, M3s. Weapows platoon had 1919a4 and 60 mm mortars. H&S Co. had the heavy weapows.
Ret.CWO
Member
Jim Keenan hit the nail on the head. TO&E dictates what is carried in any Military unit. My commander in the first gulf war was issued a M-9 but also carried a M16A2 by choice. Wouldn't you. Some how he didn't feel quite at ease with the 9mm.
Zoo6Zoom I'd bet that guy was talking about a BAR, which while full auto only, you can (with practice) fire single and double shots.
I get the impression that weapons issue is pretty flexible these days. My nephew deployed to Afghanistan a couple of months ago. During the training period his unit did a lot of weapons training. One of the guys in my nephew's squad showed an exceptional aptitude with the M40 sniper rifle. My nephew's squad has a sniper now. Apparently if the unit has it in stock, the guy that can use it best gets it.
Take a look at this link. It does not answer the question of "How was it determined..." but it has a lot of info and photos of the weapons.
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php?title=Band_of_Brothers
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php?title=Band_of_Brothers
stickhauler
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They still issued the 1911 for mortar squad leaders, and gunners up until when i was in the early 70's, the rest of the squad were issued, in my time, M-16's.
I was honored to meet and party with a few of the guys from the 506th Infantry that were depicted in "Band Of Brothers" when I was stationed at Fort Campbell, when they had the 101st Airborne Division Association's convention there in 1973. Those guys were in their 50's by that time, and were quite capable of still holding their own against a young guy like me. We'll not see the like of men like that come this way again I fear.
Those guys would tell fun stories about their time in Europe, they couldn't relate stories about what horrors they saw, and my respect for their sacrifice prevented me from going to any length to get them to. They saw their fellow "troopers' from that time as their brothers, they saw young punks like I was at the time as a brother as well. That was high praise to me then, and still is.
I was honored to meet and party with a few of the guys from the 506th Infantry that were depicted in "Band Of Brothers" when I was stationed at Fort Campbell, when they had the 101st Airborne Division Association's convention there in 1973. Those guys were in their 50's by that time, and were quite capable of still holding their own against a young guy like me. We'll not see the like of men like that come this way again I fear.
Those guys would tell fun stories about their time in Europe, they couldn't relate stories about what horrors they saw, and my respect for their sacrifice prevented me from going to any length to get them to. They saw their fellow "troopers' from that time as their brothers, they saw young punks like I was at the time as a brother as well. That was high praise to me then, and still is.
slightly off-topic, but a great story......
i was in the 1-1 CAV in germany in the winter of 2004. i worked directly for the CSM and one day he came up to me and said, "do you want to go to Bastogne with some of the guys easy company...the band of brothers guys?"
i said, "ugh, yeah sergeant major."
these guys tour regularly, and they were coming to visit our small post...an honor in and of itself. the CSM let 10 of us make a trip with them to Bastogne. all but one of them had not been there in 60 years. i could shed a tear right now just remembering it. it was probably one the most significant experiences of my life thus far.
walking with those guys, listening to them remember what happened 60 years before. some of the spots had changed so little that a few of the guys actually remembered right where they had dug fox-holes. at one point, a german vet happened to be in the same area as the guys, and as it happened, with the help of the old fella's grandson as translator, these vets from both sides exchanged stories and realized that they had set less than a few hundred yards from one another decades before. it was unreal....to hear stories from both sides, myths debunked, laughs and tears exchanged...wow.
it was the week before christmas, 2004, a bit of snow on the ground, and overcast. the guys there were bill guarnere, babe heffron, earl mcclung, don malarkey, and i can't remember the 5th....maybe shifty powers. just unreal.
i was in the 1-1 CAV in germany in the winter of 2004. i worked directly for the CSM and one day he came up to me and said, "do you want to go to Bastogne with some of the guys easy company...the band of brothers guys?"
i said, "ugh, yeah sergeant major."these guys tour regularly, and they were coming to visit our small post...an honor in and of itself. the CSM let 10 of us make a trip with them to Bastogne. all but one of them had not been there in 60 years. i could shed a tear right now just remembering it. it was probably one the most significant experiences of my life thus far.
walking with those guys, listening to them remember what happened 60 years before. some of the spots had changed so little that a few of the guys actually remembered right where they had dug fox-holes. at one point, a german vet happened to be in the same area as the guys, and as it happened, with the help of the old fella's grandson as translator, these vets from both sides exchanged stories and realized that they had set less than a few hundred yards from one another decades before. it was unreal....to hear stories from both sides, myths debunked, laughs and tears exchanged...wow.
it was the week before christmas, 2004, a bit of snow on the ground, and overcast. the guys there were bill guarnere, babe heffron, earl mcclung, don malarkey, and i can't remember the 5th....maybe shifty powers. just unreal.
rocky branch
Member
I had to train with A6s. Horrendous beasts to hump, and I'm not talking back seat to range.
We rigged slings and it is entirely possible to fire and maneuver if you have to.
In combat things change fast and often.
There are some pics from the Pacific showing guys advancing in heavy brush firing A6s.
My dad was 506th PIR, thou not "E" Co.
BARs were not jumped. The average trooper had a Garand broken down in a Griswold bag or container.
When they were sent to Bastogn, it was a complete emergency.
A lot of guys had no equipment at all and picked it up from piles of gear discarded by fleeing troops who had panicked at the initial assault.
It was a bad time.
The word at home was the guys rushed into Bastogne and the area were not expected to survive.
My dad would not speak of it.
We used these when I went thru jump school in 1967.
I did two tours with SF in RVN, 68-70.
While we had a bit of choice of US weapons, the SOG guys had a wide choice.
Regular units overall had very little if any choice outside the unit TOE.
Crew served weapons guys always had a .45.
We rigged slings and it is entirely possible to fire and maneuver if you have to.
In combat things change fast and often.
There are some pics from the Pacific showing guys advancing in heavy brush firing A6s.
My dad was 506th PIR, thou not "E" Co.
BARs were not jumped. The average trooper had a Garand broken down in a Griswold bag or container.
When they were sent to Bastogn, it was a complete emergency.
A lot of guys had no equipment at all and picked it up from piles of gear discarded by fleeing troops who had panicked at the initial assault.
It was a bad time.
The word at home was the guys rushed into Bastogne and the area were not expected to survive.
My dad would not speak of it.
We used these when I went thru jump school in 1967.
I did two tours with SF in RVN, 68-70.
While we had a bit of choice of US weapons, the SOG guys had a wide choice.
Regular units overall had very little if any choice outside the unit TOE.
Crew served weapons guys always had a .45.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Must have been a different Army then I was in.
The Army I was in seemed to give the heaviest weapons to the littlest guys.
rc
Winters 506th paratroopers were convinced by the Brits about 2 days before to jump with a leg bag for carrying more gear. So the GI's loaded them with about 80 extra pounds of gear, ammo and guns.
Unfortunately many of these tore off on the jump and got lost. Winters came down just with a bayonet. He and others had to scrounge for Garands, Thompsons, or what they could find.
Page 60.... see this list of stuff not in the stuff in the leg bag on the 20 foot tether:
vest, long johns,combat jacket, pocket knife,spoon,razor,socks,cleaning patches,flashlight, maps,3 days K rations, sugar,coffee,toilet paper,matches ,ammo,compass,frag granades,anti-tank mine,smoke grenade,plastiq explosive,2 cartons of cigs, web belt, braces, 45 auto,canteen, shovel,first aid kit,bayonet, 2 parachutes,gas mask,jump knife,musette bag,underwear, more ammo,TNT, rifle/MG/mortar, maewest, helmet. Then they added that tethered leg bag.
Other than that, they jumped pretty light! Some Guys!
Unfortunately many of these tore off on the jump and got lost. Winters came down just with a bayonet. He and others had to scrounge for Garands, Thompsons, or what they could find.
Page 60.... see this list of stuff not in the stuff in the leg bag on the 20 foot tether:
vest, long johns,combat jacket, pocket knife,spoon,razor,socks,cleaning patches,flashlight, maps,3 days K rations, sugar,coffee,toilet paper,matches ,ammo,compass,frag granades,anti-tank mine,smoke grenade,plastiq explosive,2 cartons of cigs, web belt, braces, 45 auto,canteen, shovel,first aid kit,bayonet, 2 parachutes,gas mask,jump knife,musette bag,underwear, more ammo,TNT, rifle/MG/mortar, maewest, helmet. Then they added that tethered leg bag.
Other than that, they jumped pretty light! Some Guys!
I am well aware that in combat the TO&E goes by the board to some extent, and everything is considered combat expendable, meaning that losses don't have to be accounted for or paid for as they would in garrison.
Still, a lot of the WWII stories about "how I threw away my XXX and carried an XYZ" are baloney, at least when the "XYZ" was an enemy weapon. A good example is the German MP38/40 SMG (aka, erroneously, as the Schmeisser). Some GI's did try those out early on with the predictable result that they were fired on by both sides. And any GI who traded an M1 rifle for a Mauser or an Arisaka should have been eligible for a "Section 8" (discharge for reasons of insanity).
In Vietnam, things were much looser and rear echelon troops did pick up and carry an assortment of weapons, since they didn't need to worry about ammo resupply.
I knew civilian contractors who carried everything from Swedish "K guns" to Browning Auto 5 shotguns. They were not supposed to be armed but all carried weapons ("the troops will protect you" turned out as hollow as "the police will protect you").
I am told things in Afghanistan and Iraq are pretty tight as far as civilian weaponry is concerned, but I hear the inevitable stories about people carrying all sorts of exotic weapons. I suspect many of those also are just stories, to impress the kiddies at home. After all, it can't be easy to smuggle out a .50 AE and enough ammo to fight hundreds of Al Qaeda terrorists for months.
Jim
Still, a lot of the WWII stories about "how I threw away my XXX and carried an XYZ" are baloney, at least when the "XYZ" was an enemy weapon. A good example is the German MP38/40 SMG (aka, erroneously, as the Schmeisser). Some GI's did try those out early on with the predictable result that they were fired on by both sides. And any GI who traded an M1 rifle for a Mauser or an Arisaka should have been eligible for a "Section 8" (discharge for reasons of insanity).
In Vietnam, things were much looser and rear echelon troops did pick up and carry an assortment of weapons, since they didn't need to worry about ammo resupply.
I knew civilian contractors who carried everything from Swedish "K guns" to Browning Auto 5 shotguns. They were not supposed to be armed but all carried weapons ("the troops will protect you" turned out as hollow as "the police will protect you").
I am told things in Afghanistan and Iraq are pretty tight as far as civilian weaponry is concerned, but I hear the inevitable stories about people carrying all sorts of exotic weapons. I suspect many of those also are just stories, to impress the kiddies at home. After all, it can't be easy to smuggle out a .50 AE and enough ammo to fight hundreds of Al Qaeda terrorists for months.
Jim
X-Rap
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I was interested in the report a month or so ago about the truck driver from Kansas who when their house in Afganistan was attacked and the some UN guards killed took some of the residents and hid them in a back area and fought off attempts by Taliban to enter the compound with what was represented in interviews as his personal AK.
I would sure as heck would never intentionally carry what could have been ID'ed as Axis weapons on the battlefield in Europe as an Allied soldier but maybe wouldn't have those same concerns in todays war zones as a civilian.
I would sure as heck would never intentionally carry what could have been ID'ed as Axis weapons on the battlefield in Europe as an Allied soldier but maybe wouldn't have those same concerns in todays war zones as a civilian.
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