Bank Robbery - What would you do?

[Claude Clay]

there was a bang---they came in shooting
lined up--not seeing me.

out in public , condition yellow, i pay attention to the peoples coming & going. thus their entrance into the bank would not be a surprise to me. i care less about the banks money. as they discharged weapon(s) that to me makes clear their capability to use extreme force.

im gonna suppose they are within 30 feet of me, I draw to buzzer 1st round 1.15 sec. head shot and split times for 2 more head shots are .15 and .2 seconds. as they are not aware of me untill my 1st shot, throw out the 1.15 and their total time aware of me is .35 sec. even hyped, human reaction time is half a second so the third perp is hit before he can even fully react to my actions. so it was that 3 walked in but my initial action made it 2 to 1 from the starting line.

this is a game [one of many]i played at a south FL LEO Shoot-House in the 80's. targets than were manikins and moved and turned remotely. Even amongst the most skilled shooters few were able to commit to this action. though they are wicked fast and accurate on paper. when the scenario becomes as described: hesitation at the very beginning ruined most. than many pulled their 2nd and most missed their 3rd shot.

i think on this as many can be trained as solders but few have the true warriors mindset.

the fact that your 1st knowledge of their intent was AFTER they made noise put you behind the curve so even armed your best course of action was what you did anyways. FWIW unless they fired 'at' someone i would be just an observer.

 

[Bubba613]

this is a game

Says it all.

 

[Claude Clay]

Bubba613
Quote:
this is a game
Says it all.

yup--just a mulit million dollar a year 'game' that our gun carrying officials 'play' in fancy high tech computer controlled shoot houses and mobile-trailers to try and stay alive and keep others alive also.

substitute the term 'simulation' for 'game' and "live fire practice' for 'play'. than please re-read.

 

[Treo]

Why are these bank robbery scenarios any different from the mall shooter wargames?
This thread's going to end the same way, split right down the middle between the "sheepdogs" who see their CHP as a mandate from Gawd to protect the flock, and the realists ( guess which side I'm on) and both telling the other they're an idiot.

I vote for a lock

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

irony

And the prior behavior of 3 hopped up felons with guns sure sounds like they intend to shoot someone before it's all over.


theres a certain irony in saying that but using a case where in fact they didn't shoot anyone to support the fantasy

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

headshots to all 3 preferred if given the opportunity

sure you don't wanna time it so they line up? kill the first 2 with one shot then get the third?

 

[Bubba613]

theres a certain irony in saying that but using a case where in fact they didn't shoot anyone to support the fantasy

There's no irony whatsoever. It happened in this particular case that they didn't. It happened in plenty of other cases that they did.
Here you have the benefit of hindsight. In the bank you don't know which way it will end.
Willing to take the chance?
What if they decide that you'll be the one they shoot on the way out?
If robbers never or seldom shot people randomly it would be an easy call. But that isn't what happens. About 40+% of the time they do in fact shoot people, even where they have gotten everything they wanted.
Here's a case where they shot not just the clerks but one of the customers as well.
http://www.wsmv.com/news/10524213/detail.html

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

About 40+% of the time they do in fact shoot people, even where they have gotten everything they wanted.


could you support that stat?

 

[Bubba613]

Yes, I support it very much.
Can you find evidence disputing it?

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

One obvious reason for an individual to engage in bank robbery is economic where the motive is to obtain money. Another is that because of the low amounts of cash actually stolen per robbery, bank robbers are interested in projecting a persona of violence. (8) Whichever is the case, the threat of violence is always present. Information on weapons used in the commission of a bank robbery, violence, injuries sustained, and other crimes is contained in the NIBRS data as well as the BCS data. The percentage involving an actual shooting reported in BCS is around 2 percent. Table 5.5 shows this percentage over the 1996-2000 period. BCS data displayed in Table 5.6 show that over this period, a firearm was present in about 32 percent of all bank robbery incidents. In almost all of those cases, 30 percent overall, that firearm was a handgun.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0WRO/is_2002_Annual/ai_n7639734/pg_5

heck they don't even have a gun 40% of the time

 

[mgregg85]

I won't tell you whether or not to get involved, that is a decision that only you can make at that particular moment. If I thought violence was imminent I would probably try to do something about it, but 3 against 1 is pretty bad odds, even with the element of surprise. Ideally you could shoot or threaten to shoot and make them flee, with or without the money.

Also beware of a lookout standing in the back, watching for someone like you who might be armed and try to put a stop to it. I've heard of smart bank robbers having a person with a shotgun hang back by the doors and watch for potential troublemakers. Might be a bunch of crap but don't let yourself get tunnel vision, stay vigilant even if you think you have spotted all three robbers. A fourth could be lurking and pretending to be an innocent bystander.

 

[TAB]

some thing else to think about... lets just say you do start shooting, and people in the bank are hurt becuase of it. Are you legally/ civily responsible for that?

 

[Delmar]

Well, first off Steveorjo, I'm glad you survived the tale. That had to be horrible for you and everyone else involved. Whether to draw a firearm or not really does depend on the individual's skill and what the situation is, and far be it for me to second guess the situation. There are so many variables in situations such as these that its truly hard to tell what might have happened had you been armed and trained. In the end, you were forced to depend on the good will of evil people.
I do agree with others, that the money is not important enough in and of itself to engage in a firefight, but then comes the disturbing thought of what if? The bad guys could have easily decided to shoot everyone there for any or no reason.
We had an armed robbery/murder occur some years back at a country store not far from where I lived at the time. Family run business-actually a couple well into their 60's who knew everyone by their first name and well liked.
One morning, a couple of out of town thugs came in, robbed them of their cash and then shot them to death. The camera revealed both victims cooperated in loading up the loot for them, and they were murdered for their efforts.

 

[Dwight45]

If you were armed and chose not to shoot first, the robbers would get the bank's money--not your problem. If they started shooting people (not likely), you'd then be legally justified to shoot back.
If, on the other hand, you started shooting first, you'd spur a messy gunfight and, especially being in California, you'd end up in a grueling and expensive legal mess. Or you'd be a dead hero.

 

[TAB]

I can't think of a state where if you start a gun fight and other people are hurt you would not be liable atleast in civil court.

 

[notorious]

Say to yourself over and over "I am not cop"

Unless you are a cop... in which case, I would still do nothing until it became a life or death situation when they start searching patrons or pistol whipping the teller.

 

[Claude Clay]

+ TAB

if they fire 1st than you are reacting to them
if you fire 1st than ANYTHING that they do [a lawyer will say] is in response to your actions.
without regard to your capabilities, i don't. think you want a good part of your future dedicated to a moments act.social rules now make the law abiding in some situations responsible for the actions of the criminal.

 

[Orange_Magnum]

My magazine holds 7. In addition I carry a spare magazine. It's a last resort to open fire, especially since a 9mm round in the belly will not incapacitate a criminal at all. If I could step out with an M16 and be sure of instant incapacitation upon hits it would be another thing. It's one thing to shoot accurately at the gunrange, another when the pumping adrenaline makes you shaky with determination, under attack from criminals.

 

[Todesengel]

Nothing.



.....unless my life is in Danger. Really depends on the individual situation.

 

[Orange_Magnum]

If I had to rob a bank I would wear a bullet proof vest under a sweater and dito for the thighs and keep two high capacity handguns on me with spare magazines ready. As soon as a good customer started giving me body shots I would fill him up with lead. Not that this will ever happen.

Bank robbers are professionals. Only if there was one bank robber and he was so close I could sneak my gun up to his head from behind, I would shoot.

 

[Bubba613]

The percentage involving an actual shooting reported in BCS is around 2 percent. Table 5.5 shows this percentage over the 1996-2000 period. BCS data displayed in Table 5.6 show that over this period, a firearm was present in about 32 percent of all bank robbery incidents. In almost all of those cases, 30 percent overall, that firearm was a handgun.

That would certainly make me less likely to do anything but be a good witness in a bank robbery.

 

[meef]

Me personally?


Easy.


I would have immediately stood up while pounding mightily on my hairy chest and screaming for all the world like an enraged mountain gorilla!

I would then have proceeded to whip out my concealed carry (licensed, of course) wireless laptop, clicked the safety off the keyboard and given them a good what-for via the Internet (hopefully they likewise would have been carrying laptops tuned to the proper forum).

Whereupon they would then have soiled themselves after reading my commando-like posting, dropped their weapons whilst quaking in abject terror and thrown themselves prostate onto the bank floor - all the while profusely thanking whatever deity they answer to that they had gotten off so lightly!

Damn but I'm bad!






Next question?

 

[BADUNAME37]

Too bad

you didn't have a 12 gauge shotgun bead on the jerks. One good shot would have surely put them on the floor.

Nah, you did the right thing. No one got hurt or killed, the bank got their money and the FBI is after these Butch Cassidy wannabes.

 

[notorious]

If I had to rob a bank I would wear a bullet proof vest under a sweater and dito for the thighs and keep two high capacity handguns on me with spare magazines ready. As soon as a good customer started giving me body shots I would fill him up with lead. Not that this will ever happen.

Bank robbers are professionals. Only if there was one bank robber and he was so close I could sneak my gun up to his head from behind, I would shoot.

Actually... bank robbers are by and large, not very professional. The average take on a bank robbery is $700-$1,000 and the perp is usually a rob and dash type that runs in and runs out.

The movies that show the robbery crews hitting the bank with military precision and know when the deposits come are very rare in real life.

 

[Odd Job]

I know what the right answer is if I know that all they want is money. As others have said, do nothing.

But...if that happened in South Africa, I would probably shoot. The reason being that if they come and frisk the customers and find my pistol, they'll probably shoot me.
That's a different world though.

A few years ago an off duty cop was in a bank that got robbed (this was in SA). Two robbers came into the bank and the cop got the better of them and popped them both. Unfortunately when he came out the bank, there was a third robber on a nearby roof who shot him dead. In those circumstances I don't know what he could have done better. If he stayed quiet and got frisked, they'd kill him for sure when they found out who he was. He took action and died anyway. I truly believe that there are some situations that you can't win or have a very low chance of winning. You could say the score of 2-1 is better than 0-1 but that's meagre solace for the guy's family.