'Takeover' heists spike at banks here

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Jeff White

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In most bank robberies you could be standing at the teller's window next to the one being robbed and never be aware that the robbery was happening. "Takeover" robberies, while still rare, are increasing in the St Louis Metropolitan area.

No one needs to speculate as to why they have spiked in the area, that isn't on topic here.

A visit to the bank lobby may or may not be something you do regularly, online banking, drive through satellite branches and ATM machines have cut down on the traffic in bank lobby's and some people never go into the bank lobby. If you do still visit the bank lobby, how much attention do you pay to the layout? Where are all the exits? What's cover and what's concealment? What's your plan if a take over robbery occurs while you are standing in line?

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...4CBF8CB7DEFDF32F862575C400095D88?OpenDocument
'Takeover' heists spike at banks here
By Robert Patrick
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
05/28/2009


Two men burst through the door of a Clayton bank earlier this year, waving handguns in the air.

One, wearing a ski mask, jumped the counter and headed for the vault, while the second man, wearing a baseball cap pulled low and a stocking mask, stood guard. An accomplice waited outside. All were gone within minutes.

Most bank robberies, while traumatizing for employees, don't involve shouts and guns. But the March 26 robbery at a Bank of America in Clayton was far from a fluke this year.

The FBI has counted eight "takeover-style" robberies in the St. Louis area so far this year. That means the robbers were armed, displayed the weapons and took control of the bank. Last year, there were no such robberies in the area.

"My bank robbery guys say they've never seen it like this," said John Gillies, head of the St. Louis office of the FBI.

There has not been a similar spike in overall bank robberies, at least not yet. So far this year, the FBI has reported 22 bank robberies in St. Louis and surrounding counties. There were 44 in 2008 and 48 in 2007.

Special Agent Paul Fairbanks, with the FBI division in Springfield, Ill., which includes the Metro East, said there have been 20 bank robberies in his area this year. That's ahead of the pace for 2008, when there were 31, but behind the pace for 2007, when 61 were reported.

In most bank robberies, tellers never see a weapon, and injuries are rare. Most robbers hand a teller a note or demand money with a threat. Violence breaks out in only 4 percent to 5 percent of robberies, FBI statistics show. When there are deaths, the robbers themselves are typically the ones to die, often at the hands of police officers.

But takeover robberies are highly combustible events and have more potential for violence because they involve weapons and more people.

"Those are the worst kind," said Clayton Police Chief Tom Byrne. "Those are the ones where people get killed."

Officials declined to speculate about a cause for the increase in takeover robberies.

University of Missouri-St. Louis criminologist Richard Rosenfeld said one reason could be desperation stemming from stronger bank regulations. Many banks have started banning customers from wearing hoods, hats or sunglasses, which takes out the option of surreptitiously passing a note to a teller while disguised, he said.

Whatever the cause, officials say they are trying to stop the robberies from escalating further.

"There is a joint effort by the banks, the FBI and local law enforcement to do whatever it takes to stop this. We've had numerous meetings, and we're going to take some proactive measures," said Clayton police detective Julie Marlow.


She would not elaborate.

The three men charged in the March 26 robbery in Clayton — Shamir Houston, 27, Ura Clerk, 26, and Michael Wesley, 45 — have been also charged in federal court with the robbery of a Commerce Bank in University City three weeks earlier.

The take: $10,890 on March 6, and $95,100 on March 26.

With the help of tipsters who identified Clerk and Houston from surveillance photos, police and the FBI arrested the two men April 30. Clerk, believed to be the getaway driver, confessed and implicated Houston, charging documents show. Investigators were then pointed to Wesley as the third man in the robberies, court documents show.

Houston was convicted of unlawful use of a weapon and attempted kidnapping in Cape Girardeau County in 2001. In 2004, he was convicted of being a felon in possession of a firearm. Wesley has been previously convicted of five bank robberies, documents show.

Lawyers for Wesley and Houston did not return calls seeking comment. Clerk's lawyer, Douglas Forsyth, said he was still waiting to see prosecutors' evidence against his client, who has pleaded not guilty.

Police and the FBI continue to investigate the other takeover robberies.
 

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I'm surprised America still has banks where someone can vault over the counter. In the UK they are ALL bullet proofed glass teller boothes with dropdown shields on the counter and doors. Bank robbery is almost non-existant here. Bad Guys tend to concentrate on the cash delivery trucks - and even they are a hassle due to exploding dye in the sacks and trucks with distress beacons etc.
 
It is interesting to notice these things. The only times I have actually set foot in a bank branch in years were to get cashiers' checks to pay for cars or to get change for something. With direct deposit and debit card, I rarely even need to go to a drive-up window or an ATM. Most of the ATM transactions I have done lately were in foreign countries. What's the historically quoted line I heard in a movie?

"Why do you rob banks?"

"Because that's where the money is."

I'm even allowed to carry in banks, but when you look at it this way, why go into a bank any more than necessary? My bank now actually has video/telephone teller branches in supermarkets. I can't imagine much less risk than that.
 
I'm surprised America still has banks where someone can vault over the counter. In the UK they are ALL bullet proofed glass teller boothes with dropdown shields on the counter and doors. Bank robbery is almost non-existant here.
Couple of reasons for this:

1) bullet proof glass booths makes the bank look like one of those check cashing places in the ghetto (banks are rather image conscience).

2) one could argue that there would be MORE takeover robberies if more banks were designed that way (just walk in, grab a customer, stick a gun to their head and demand the bank employees open the door and let them in to the secured area ... first bank to allow a customer to die will be sued out of existence).

I rarely go to a freestanding bank building, but when I do I find the smart thing to do (and you should do this every where you go) is make note of all the entrances/exits and more important what I'd use for cover/concealment if things get dodgy.

Banks here tend to go for the over-the-top architectural details, but keep in mind that just because something LOOKS like a stone pillar, its probably drywall and aluminum 2x4s wrapped in cultured stone (so its not stopping anything).

I would bet that one of those heavy, hardwood desk like structures in the lobby where you fill out your deposit/withdrawal slips on are pretty sturdy.


Overall though, I'm not drawing unless lives are at stake ... the FDIC insures the deposits so its not like anyone is having their life savings stolen here.


Anyway, I'm surprised there aren't more bank robberies than there are. In reality if you stick a gun into the face of a clerk at a convenience store and get away with $17 you're pretty much going to be in just as much trouble as if you did the same thing at a bank and get away with a couple grand (plus based on all those closed circuit camera videos you see on TV and the net, you're more likely to be beat on or shot by a convenience store clerk than a bank teller)
 
where the money is

Ah yes, the original Slick Willie- Willie Sutton, that is. See http://www.fbi.gov/libref/historic/famcases/sutton/sutton.htm .

In NC, banks are one of those places where the old joke about our CCH permit is unfortunately in effect in reality. The old joke says that there are so many places where you can't carry legally with a permit in NC that the CCH stands for "Carry Concealed HOLSTER," not Carry Concealed Handgun.

So, I don't go into banks here except on very rare occasions. In answer to the original question, about all I could do (or likely would do) is try to be a good witness.

lpl
 
Anyway, I'm surprised there aren't more bank robberies than there are. In reality if you stick a gun into the face of a clerk at a convenience store and get away with $17 you're pretty much going to be in just as much trouble as if you did the same thing at a bank and get away with a couple grand (plus based on all those closed circuit camera videos you see on TV and the net, you're more likely to be beat on or shot by a convenience store clerk than a bank teller)
I think the reason is that bank robberies are investigated by the FBI and very few bank robberies go unsolved. Its one of the things the FBI is actually pretty good at.
 
I have pulled out of the FDIC Banks and into NCUA (Credit banks) and dont have a physical need to go to a actual bank with a teller much anymore. If I do, it's only once a month, if that and only for cash. During my visit, I tend to pick a bank that is quiet, out of the way and prefer to be the only one present during the transaction that way, anyone else coming in after me can be added to my situational awareness.

I dont do ATM's anymore. I dont do big banks with many people coming and going anymore. I try to avoid drive throughs. I really cut down on exposing myself and family to banks.

Wife occasionally goes to a bank and that bank was robbed the day she went. Eventually they caught the robber who did the crime. They usually do. It just takes time. But now I am the one that goes bank, wife stays at work or home.

I dont fear hold ups. But avoid them by cutting down as described. I like to go to lonely small banks in the hills with one or two tellers and maybe open for a few hours early in the week. That way, I can secure the cash for the month.

It's the big banks with thier large silver or gold plated multi story buildings with room for 50 people to come into the lobby on pay day or Social security days that I specifically avoid.

Again everything is non FDIC banks now. So it's all through the electronic auto banking for the bills. So the thief will have to hack or completely take over who-ever does the clearing of montly auto payments between banks and drafters. it's all binary over the computers these days. Not actual cash or checks as was in the old days.

If you visit several banks on a rotating and varying time of week and get to know the people who work in these banks it can be easier to see others who are regulars as well. And after years, it becomes VERY easy to spot the one person out of place... either a traveler far from home, a trucker with a comcheck or a migrant/worker cashing a paycheck. Or.. someone who profiles does not match anything and goes to condition yellow for a possible robbery attempt.

So it comes down to this. So what if they rob a bank? I wasnt there, so it does not bother me. That is how I look at it.

But as long as there is cash to be taken, robberies will always be attempted. What happens if the entire US abolishes cash? Will that stop robberies? No. It will only convert those to other forms.

The one robbing scenario I dislike is when they put a skimmer with a micro camera onto a ATM long enough to get your PIN and your magnetic strip info. Sometimes a simple old gas pump credit card scanner atop a ATM card slot is sufficient until someone calls bank and asks about this whatsit that is not there before?

Good way to observe and be alert at all times whatever you do when banking.

One more thing to consider.

Go to your bank and see a Armored Truck in front or side of the bank? That is NOT the time to be banking. Go away and come back later. There is simply too much money involved and a very high level of potential for a bad robbery with shooting.
 
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As a former Banker in a "high risk" branch--If your in the place and it does get robbed.. Keep your weapon holstered and don't risk pulling it until you know 100% that someone is going to be severely injured if you do nothing. The best case scenario is for the bank to comply with the robbers demands and give them the money and thereby get them out of the building. Nobody wants the robber to still be in the building when the cops show because this leads to hostage situations.

The bank is insured and will gladly take the loss in order to protect employees and customers. Plus the overwhelming majority of robbers are caught within 72 hours and the average take is less than $1,200...

Bank Robbery doesn't pay--Well unless you are one of the recent CEO's and that's called executive compensation in the form of bonuses.......
 
In NC, banks are one of those places where the old joke about our CCH permit is unfortunately in effect in reality. The old joke says that there are so many places where you can't carry legally with a permit in NC that the CCH stands for "Carry Concealed HOLSTER," not Carry Concealed Handgun.

Aggravating isn't it. The day I had to go to the bank and the Post Office was the day I bought a pistol safe and mounted it in my truck. I'd rather keep it on me considering when I come out of the bank I just might have some money on me ;)
 
and the average take is less than $1,200...

You must have banked in a poor region.

Average bank robbery takes...

<$5K http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/html/web/specialreport/05-SRbankrobbery.html
$4400 http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/chk/20020607a.asp
> $4K http://www.adirondackdailyenterprise.com/page/content.detail/id/505980.html
>$9.5Khttp://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/10/fbi-releases-quarterly-bank-ro.html
~ $10K http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/16/bank-robberies-on-the-upswing/
 
Violence breaks out in only 4 percent to 5 percent of robberies, FBI statistics show.

So the odds of my being in a bank when it's being robbed are a thousand to one and my odds of being in a gunfight in a bank are a million to one. Good to know
 
Actually some banks have difficulty scraping enough 50's to fill a few hundred in cash at times. Sometimes Im told a truck will come there with the money from Little Rock Reserve later that day and I will come back for the money then.

I love small banks. Easy service. Not much cash though. Dont really need that much.
 
Hard to tell Jeff I might be preemptive if I thought they were gonna take my Rolex.:D I'd have to have the cards stacked on my side but if I thought I would be checked by one of the bg I may start the fight especially if it was close. I wouldn't recomend this to everyone I just like my watch.:neener:



Jim
 
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I did armored trucking for 8.5 years, nary a single take down attempt, though one of our trucks with Wells Fargo went to a bank WHILE it was being robbed. The teller waved the messenger to leave, whispering, "We're being robbed, he's in the vault!"
Why they all didn't boogie...who knows.
Heck, my bank isn't even in my town.
 
I go into the bank 3 or 4 times a week, to be honest, I'm not worried when I'm in the bank one bit, its the walk too and from the truck that I fear.

just about every bank I go in, has 2 enterance/ exits. they are almost always as far away from the tellers as they can be. So the chances of getting out are slim to none.
 
I'm surprised America still has banks where someone can vault over the counter. In the UK they are ALL bullet proofed glass teller boothes with dropdown shields on the counter and doors. Bank robbery is almost non-existant here. Bad Guys tend to concentrate on the cash delivery trucks - and even they are a hassle due to exploding dye in the sacks and trucks with distress beacons etc.

The UK is a small place. It's like comparing the rest of America to New Jersey or something.
 
There are two places that I hate to go: 1) banks and 2) pharmacies. Money and drugs are not my idea of motivators, but them I don't have a criminal mind. Anytime I go to either location, I watch what's happening. Frankly, if the pharmacy is ever robbed while I'm there, I'll just make my way to the kitty litter section...at least I wouldn't make as much of a mess. In my bank and in my pharmacy, there isn't any cover, and even concealment is a heafy distance.
 
Does make you think though... If bankers can't keep their money safe, the rest of us are pretty SOL.
 
Bad Guys tend to concentrate on the cash delivery trucks - and even they are a hassle due to exploding dye in the sacks and trucks with distress beacons etc.
Armored trucks over here are equipped with far more effective measures than dye bombs or distress beacons. :) Also, many truck heists are inside jobs.
 
Quote:
and the average take is less than $1,200...

You must have banked in a poor region.

Average bank robbery takes...

<$5K http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/html/...nkrobbery.html
$4400 http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/chk/20020607a.asp
> $4K http://www.adirondackdailyenterprise...id/505980.html
>$9.5Khttp://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/10/fbi-releases-quarterly-bank-ro.html
~ $10K http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/200...n-the-upswing/

I got my information on this back when I was Bank Security Officer for a small bankgroup in KY as most of the other BS we paid outside consultants to inform us of it was probably from 20 years prior. --By the way to avoid Confusion (Bank Security Officer was a title some officer of the Bank got saddled with by OCC rules-In charge of maintaining and implementing a plan for overall security both physical and electronic/disaster training etc. The VP and AVPs would pass it off to the newest Officer of the Bank as soon as they could because it was a PITA although most of the paperwork usually got delegated to someone else from there.
 
Hello from the Bank Robbery Capital of the World.

In Los Angeles we have bank robberies all the time.

Two in the last month in the San Fernando Valley....sounds likethe same guys.

also...about a year and a half ago a group would rob patrons and employees of restrauants.
 
Concealed carry is okay in all forms of financial institutions in my state for those with a CPL.... however an alarming number of Credit Unions have now posted their doors as a no carry zone. That makes carrying in their building a case of criminal trespass.

Obviously the bad guys won't follow the "rules".

I've closed my accounts with the companies who post their property in that way and made sure they knew why they lost me as a client.
 
If bankers can't keep their money safe, the rest of us are pretty SOL.
The banks money is pretty safe. Even if it gets stolen, its insured. No one loses out.
 
In the UK they are ALL bullet proofed glass teller boothes with dropdown shields on the counter and doors

Is that because the citizins in the UK are not allowed to own guns, or is that just Great Britton?

When only the bad guys have guns, there are more defensless people on the streets and in the banks.
 
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