"Banning Handguns on Beale Street": Question for Memphis Members.

[damien]

Sounds like this is a public street. How does a "merchant's association" get control of a public street. Are there condos or apartments on this street? That would raise another question. This whole scheme sounds fishy to me, and probably illegal.

http://www.myfoxmemphis.com/dpp/news/tennessee/061709_Banning_Handguns_on_Beale

MEMPHIS, Tenn. - When Performa Entertainment Real Estate and the Beale Street Merchants Association failed to convince state lawmakers Beale Street should be exempt as a historical district, they came up with another plan in order to keep guns far away from its restaurants and bars.

"Our paramount concern is to provide for the safety and enjoyment of our guests and we're going to take any and all measures necessary to do that," said Onzie Horne Jr., Executive Director of the Beale Street Merchants Association.

Now weapons are banned on Beale starting the first weekend after a new state law allowing guns in bars takes effect.

"While we are certainly for second amendment rights and the rights that go with them we thought it was a bad bill," said John Elkington with CEO of Performa.

Beginning July 17th visitors to Beale Street can expect to be screened with metal detector wands at all entry points. Those enforcing the new ban liken it to the kind of security you experience at the airport.

Merchants say it shouldn't take long to get into the party area and once inside signs will remind everyone, "no guns allowed."

"If people are going to come down here and party and drink I think it would be too easy to get mad and fire a gun at somebody," said a Colorado tourist.

"Anywhere alcohol is served, even state parks I'd rather not have handguns involved," said someone visiting from Covington, Tennessee.

Businesses like "King's Palace" report no trouble with gun toting customers in the past. Two years ago weapons were a worry on Beale. Performa says back then more than 650 knives were confiscated during one summer.

"It's a much more violent society than when we started Beale Street. Things have gotten tougher. Downtown is tougher," Elkington said.

 

[Kragax]

"Downtown is tougher" so of course you shouldn't be allow to protect yourself. They will NEVER see me there again.

 

[iScream]

You might do a search for Beale street. It's pretty famous. My wife and I were there for a couple days around July 4th in 2007. I never felt in danger out on the main street in the crowds but I sure wouldn't get close to some of the dark alleys around there. Walking back to our hotel a couple blocks away at 2:00AM made me just little nervous.

Personally, I think they should allow you to carry if you can show them a permit.

-Chris

 

[CoRoMo]

Wow. Metal detectors and airport likened security. What freedom.

Anywhere alcohol is served, even state parks I'd rather not have handguns involved

I think we found a true anti RKBA/pro-Brady believer here. While asked about the topic of guns around the alcohol scene, they decided to input a current headline issue as well. This was no regular Joe off the street.

 

[damien]

You might do a search for Beale street

I did, I read this much at least:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beale_Street

But the Wikipedia article doesn't address the gun issue, specifically how it might be legal for a "merchant's association" to set up checkpoints and ban guns from what appears to me to be a public street. From what I know about the new Tennessee law, induhvidual merchants can ban guns by sign placement, but the new law, as well as the old law, doesn't seem to allow for gun bans on public streets at all. It just seems illegal to me. The reason I posted it is because maybe someone local to the area knows if they have some special status under Memphis or state law, or something of the like.

P.S. I think I would like to visit that area, especially once they are forced to start obeying the law.

 

[JustinW]

What exactly are they talking about doing? Admittedly I am unfamiliar with Beale Street and what happens there but are they talking about adding checkpoints to enter when there is a festival (or similar event) going on and presumably the street has been closed off (and/or reserved, possibly for a "private" event) for it, or are they talking about permanent check points that you have to go through just to get to the shops regardless of what is going on on the street?

If it is the former then I imagine that it is valid under the current laws. If it is permanent then I imagine that it would probably run afoul of the law. But then again this is some random dudes opinion/speculation on it so I don't know.

 

[.455_Hunter]

"If people are going to come down here and party and drink I think it would be too easy to get mad and fire a gun at somebody," said a Colorado tourist.

I wonder if this person even has a clue that restaurant and bar carry is perfectly legal in our home state...:banghead:

 

[sm]

I am not current on TN law.

My suggestion, would be to contact Tom Givens or one his Staff at Rangemaster, about all this, if someone is going to Memphis and taking in Beale Street.

Heck, one would be wise to consult Rangemaster period, if going to Memphis to find out the who, what, when and where and how to stay safe.

i.e. parts of town to avoid, where a son or daughter is best to rent an apartment while they attend Rhodes College, etc.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

Those boys are going to lose business.

 

[sm]

History shows tourist areas suffer when such regulations are imposed.

Business owners find out after the enactment of restrictions, everyday activities for them, are more of a concern such as going to the bank.

Even using the legal signs and using their right to post no gun signs on store fronts.

I suggest writing the appropriate persons and letting them know, business conventions, family re-unions and other reasons to be in or near Beale Street , will be changed and moved to where folks are not deprived of rights.

IF, one is going to Memphis period, they would be wise to contact the excellent staff at Rangemaster, to find out the who, what, when and where of Memphis.
This includes finding out the legal for sure, as Rangemaster keeps current on all this.

Not just Beale Street, as there is St. Jude's Hospital for instance and one may find they need to take a child to this excellent facility.

-Get informed by Rangemaster.
-Let the powers that be, know your displeasure and how you may choose to vote with your business convention and tourist dollars.

With the economy being what it is, tourist places are really concerned about business.

Yes, I personally will continue to go to Memphis and to Beale Street.
The last time me and mine went, we adults, were armed, and I was not the only one with a cane.
Including a 19 year old female.

We had kids as well.
So we had practiced plans, buddy systems, and code words.
Software , not Hardware.

We had a great time, and I will be back to Memphis, and I will go back to Beale street.
Yes, I will write my letters, and all that.

Not to support stupid anti gun measure, instead, to support what I believe in and that is these historical places need to be preserved, and be around to pass forward to future generations.

I have a right to Blues & BBQ too...


http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=walking+in+memphis&docid=748653183178&FORM=VIRE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCWZYEEWMaI

 

[MagnumDweeb]

Okay, so 650 knives get confiscated in one summer. And now all those criminals who didn't get their knives confiscated will know that the law abiding folks can't carry guns on 'Beale Street'. How does that make things safe? If I was a criminal I'd be thinking when people are walking back to their cars far out of sight of the 'Beale Street' powers-that-be they'd be easy prey to rob, kidnap and rape, murder, the usual bad things.

Yeah, I never planned to go to Tennessee, sure it's a lovely state, I just like to travel to where I can gamble, scuba dive, and watch topless local women walk by, but I'll sure now not bother to go to 'Beale Street'.

 

[cane]

How will they enforce it, I mean charge you for trespass on a public street? If they do this, what next? Maybe exclusion because of your race? clothing? sex? maybe they don't want someone on "their" street in a wheelchair, afterall they might run into someone.

 

[tuckerdog1]

Let's see...Memphis was just ranked the 2nd most violent city behind Detroit. And they want you to be unprotected..

And of course the real dirtbags will also comply.

Tuckerdog1

 

[razorback2003]

Probably Illegal

The ban on Beale Street is probably ILLEGAL in Tennessee. I live in one of the suburban outside of Memphis in Tennessee. There are barricades on Second Street that are set up around 10PM for people to show DL's b/c you have to be 21 to even walk down the street after 10PM i believe. It is pretty silly. I'm surprised someone hasn't sued the city of Memphis for that one yet either. There are 22yr old thug unarmed guards checking drivers licenses at the barricades. I have seen them ask people to pull up shirts. If you pocket or ankle carry a small handgun, you can get by them. They aren't the brightest lightbulbs. You can also avoid the barricades entirely from other entry points on Beale.

The signs on the restaurants/bars must be worded and posted in a specific fashion on July 14th. A gun with a slash or "no guns" has no legal meaning. The signs on Beale Street have no legal meaning either. A properly worded AND posted sign in Tennessee is a $500.00 fine. I would carry on Beale if I wasn't drinking. It isn't in the greatest part of town. There are a lot of gang members that live close by. It is no fun walking to a car at night in downtown Memphis without a handgun.

 

[snorky18]

If I remember correctly from my one trip there, weren't there a lot of access points? Seems like that would be difficult to enforce, and that's before you even get into the legality / illegality of the whole situation...

The signs on the restaurants/bars must be worded and posted in a specific fashion on July 14th. A gun with a slash or "no guns" has no legal meaning. The signs on Beale Street have no legal meaning either. A properly worded AND posted sign in Tennessee is a $500.00 fine.

Not to hijack the thread, but razorback can you tell me what the signs that DO have legal meaning in TN look like? I travel there often and am glad they finally passed restaurant carry.

 

[Monkeyleg]

"If people are going to come down here and party and drink I think it would be too easy to get mad and fire a gun at somebody," said a Colorado tourist.

Funny, my wife and I were there a few years back, and I didn't get mad and shoot anyone. On the walk back to the hotel after midnight I was glad to be carrying. Some real slimeballs moping around the streets.

I'm sure these merchants wouldn't mind paying for armed security guards to escort visitors to their cars, hotels, airport, etc.

 

[VA27]

When I was stationed there in the 60's, Beale Street was off limits to military personnel. There was a reason for that and it sounds like it hasn't changed all that much from back then. It's an historic street, but it ain't no Six Flags.

 

[nitetrane98]

That's very disappointing to hear. While traveling I've gone out of my way to hit Beale St. several times. Good BBQ at the Rum Boogie Cafe. Even got to set in on a couple midweek jams at a few places. Haven't been in several years but won't go now out of principle.

 

[crebralfix]

No guard is going to search me. Period.

 

[joesolo]

According to my wife who is a Land Planner, Beale Street is a public right of way and can't be governed by a private association. They do not have the authority to regulate public right of way. We have lived in Memphis and now live in a suburb. She knows the land use laws here. FWIW I won't go to Beale Street armed or otherwise. It's Memphis for crissakes....look at "their" ranking in most dangerous cities.

 

[Dr. Fresh]

Unarmed guards? Who employs them? The city? Private businesses?

What happens if you walk right past one? If he uses force on you, do you have grounds for a lawsuit? I'd say so.

 

[sm]

Again,

Contact folks in the know about these laws such and get a copy.
Even if you are not a resident of TN, send letters to the appropriate persons to work on changing all these restrictions.

We are all in this fight to preserve freedom. Tennessee folks for sure have and will continue to assist with RKBA in other parts of the USA.

Listen folks, Tom Givens and Rangemaster has had more CCW students involved in incidents, than any other instructor or facility in the country, to the best of my knowledge.

Boycott is certainly your right, still think of others that have legitimate business and legitimate reasons for being in or near Beale Street.

i.e. College Students often go there for various school related reasons.
Music Students having to attend events and then write a review.
Art & Theatere Students do as well.
Drafting and Architect Students...

High School Field trips, such as when exhibits like Catherine the Great, or King Tut comes to town.


Look I have always carried concealed, legally, even before we had all these concealed carry permits/licenses.
I have also always had to deal with NPE (non permissive [weapon] environments).

Boycotts and Guns are fine, still as my Army buddy says "focus on completing the mission , not the problem(s)".

I did not call Tom, instead I had some ladies call Rangemaster, and find out where in town to get hotel, and what areas to avoid and other things.
They had students , on a field trip, and this was a very educational and important field trip for these kids.

I met up with them as I had been KY, then stayed north of Knoxville, and met them in Memphis.

I brought "drug store canes". Just a variety of aluminum adjustable and some wood ones.

Some of the adults, had taken my advice and were able to get Non-Res FL permits ahead of time.
I just knew at some point they would need them, and sure enough this field trip was one such occasion.

We had a good time, and stayed safe.
Granted these young adults were not all familiar with some security measures, but they learned.
They flat understood the "gov't cannot take care of them" with this trip, so this trip did open eyes of some fence sitters and get them onto the side of RKBA.


The mission: this field trip.
Mission was completed without incident.

Like I said, boycotts are fine, as are guns, just one has to think of others, that have a legit need to be in TN, or Memphis, or Beale Street.

So write and work to assist to help with this situation .

I hope you and yours never have a child that needs the services of St. Jude's, still if you do, that is a wonderful facility.
IF you do, have a legal permit/license that works in TN, (maybe the Non-Res FL would be best for you) and then contact Rangemaster to get the latest information.

No, I am not associated with Rangemaster. The fact is, Tom and his bunch are that damn good, and again they have had more students in situations than any other in the country.


I offer the same advice to other areas of the country as well , with other instructors and facilities.

Not just for training, also for what goes on in that town, the legal, and how to stay safe in that town.

s

 

[Detritus]

When I was stationed there in the 60's, Beale Street was off limits to military personnel. There was a reason for that and it sounds like it hasn't changed all that much from back then.

Beale has changed significantly since the 60's, much like the riverwalk in San Antonio but on a much smaller scale and not near as well. what used to be "a seedy part of town" has been superfically cleaned up, glitzed up, and turned into a tourist trap.

in other words when you were there Beale was a Sh&%hole, Now it's a shined up S&^%hole with a Hard Rock Cafe

my family members that still live in the area are prone to say that there are two things only a tourist does in Memphis, visit Graceland and be on Beale after dark.

 

[22-rimfire]

A lot of people, including the TN governor, disagreed with the new law. He vetoed it. Assuming the businesses own the street, the business owners have a right to post no carry laws in their business. People have a right to choose not to do business with them as well. The issue cuts both ways. If you go there and you leave late at night, I would suggest that you request an escort to your car or hotel from that area and see just how much protecting is going on by Beale Street Merchants Association. I suspect you will hear... it's not our job.... My guess is they couldn't care less as long as you spend your money there.

 

[Flyboy]

The problem is that it appears the businesses don't own the street, thus they have no lawful authority to make any rules about it.