Barrel "flex" Question for People with Free Floated AR-15's

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Messages
505
I'd like to know how many of you out there with Free floated barrels with no FSP can physically bend their barrel inside of the hand guard? I've been getting mixed answers and I just want to see if the majority of you guys have rifles that have flexible barrels and how many of you have barrels that are 100% immobile inside of the hand guards. Remember, this is for free floated barrels WITHOUT FSP's.

Thanks
 
FSP = jargon. I assume it means a front sling point? Using an acronym just left 50% of the readers out of the question poll. It's the first I've seen it, and I surf 5 or 6 AR forums.

Rest the barrel on a solid surface, it can shift the point of aim, whether a sandbag, door frame, etc. Pressure will exert a bending moment on just about any barrel light enough to be carried by a single user. The effect on accuracy is relatively minimal, as a combat rifle with a sling attached to the barrel is generally 2MOA, not 1/2. Most weapons are designed for minute of soldier at 600m, largely because most soldiers will only attempt shots up to that range at best.

Using a sling to make more accurate shots at distance is common, but on combat rifles, it's common for the swivel to be attached to the barrel. That, right there, makes the technique invalid. It's a precision target shooting technique that obviously doesn't translate. So, marketing came up with the $200 solution, add a free float, and while they're at it, lots of rails to mount stuff. The sling can be mounted to it and won't bend the barrel.

Very few just don't use a sling, for some reason that's not considered an option - and yet that solves the problem, too. It's also a lot cheaper. With single point slings being attached to a slider at the back of the lower, it get it out of the way of mag reloads, too.

The point is - do you want ( I won't even ask need) the added accuracy of a free floated barrel? Competition shooters demand it, long range shooters insist on it, OK. If the barrel you use is actually that good, and you are, too, why not?

It's the free floats on GI barrels - with rails and no accessories - that make me think it's more fad than worth it. A 2MOA barrel with a free float is still that, and a 2MOA shooter behind the charging handle is likely going to hear more feedback than see it on a target. Too many post about their new AR with the caveat "I haven't taken it to the range yet." Or, "I've got 200 rounds thru it this year and it's flawless." I'm not impressed with the reliability or the users ability in either case. It most likely just another tricked out AR, a male enhancement therapy.

I would certainly give some thought to the fact that most free float makers will not give a guarantee of improved, measurable accuracy for their product. Barrel makers can and have, take it under consideration where the advantage is.
 
Interesting discourse ... I was really wondering what the hell the Front Sight Post (FSP) had to do with barrel bending (maybe a REALLY large front post??).

When considering freefloat handguards you should also note that cranking on the sling is not just about actually bending the barrel - when you cinch up on a barrel mounted swivel, you are altering the harmonics of the barrel.
/Bryan
 
If FSP really is front sight post, then the OP stated the question poorly.

I have two NM ARs, both with conventional front sight posts. The handguards are freefloated and the slig swivel is mounted on the guards.

I imagine the OP was thinking of a flattop AR with only a gas block on the front - that however doesn't define a "freefloat."
/B
 
Harmonics- my understanding is that the barrel vibrates like a tuning fork as the bullet goes down and ultimately leaves the barrel.

Sling swivel attached to the barrel has always been a bad idea to me. My son's M4gery has a 16" bull barrel, free floated handguard, with the swivel as I recall attached to the handguard, not to the barrel. Accuracy has been pretty consistent. If the front sling swivel were attached to the front sight post, I would expect the harmonics to be adversely affected.
 
The pressure exerted on a gun from slinging up or even getting into a solid field position where you're using something as a rest can exert enough pressure on the barrel to spoil your shot.

The barrel isn't going to bend or flex a whole lot, but a non-floated barrel can be made to flex enough to change the point of impact at least a couple of inches at two hundred yards.

Obviously, the further out your target is, the more pronounced the error will become.
 
Get 2 laser boresights or one boresight and a cheap laser pointer. Put the boresight in the barrel, tape the other to the carry handle or elsewhere on the reciever. Zero the boresight so that the 2 laser dots become one on a wall about 10 ft away.

Now with the gun in a vise or with a buddy in a good prone, magazine supported position press with two fingers on the tip of the barrel. With a standard non-floated M4 or M16A2 contour barrel you should be able to see about 2" of movement between the two dots at about 10 feet. Extrapolate that out to 300 yards and thats a lot of flex.

Try this with your free floated barrel and I would imagine that it doesn't take much pressure on a sling point to shift your POI at 100yards a few inches.
 
Try this with your free floated barrel and I would imagine that it doesn't take much pressure on a sling point to shift your POI at 100yards a few inches.

Huh?? I assume you meant "try it with a non-free floated barrel..."
The point of the free float is to isolate the barrel from the handguards and the swivel which is affixed to them.
/B
 
Huh?? I assume you meant "try it with a non-free floated barrel..."
The point of the free float is to isolate the barrel from the handguards and the swivel which is affixed to them.

Referring to those with floated forends but still have the sling swivel attached to the gas block.

I see alot of M4geries with this setup.

As to the OPs original question, no floated AR barrel I am aware of will not significantly flex with relatively little pressure.
 
While I agree with Zak that nothing is completely rigid I suspect that steel isn't flexing all that much with hand pressure to give the effect you guys are seeing. Rather it's far more likely you're levering that aluminum receiver...
 
Againstthegrane
Good question. I have no idea why, but I had to find out. So I set my AR in its cleaning fixture so it would be held in place by the mag well.
Then pulled the hand guards off the float tube and clamped an indicator to the tube. With the indicator reading the side of the barrel just in
front of the front sight post. Just putting moderate finger pressure against the barrel I get about a thousandth each way, always returning
to zero. I have no idea what this proves, but there you go.
Steve
 
It's not just barrel flex - when you exert pressure on the barrel through a sling, bipod, handguard, etc you change the way the barrel vibrates. At the very least this change in harmonics can change point of impact, and at worst it will decrease accuracy.
 
I have shown this to fellow soldiers... take m16 from rack exert fair amount of sling pressure, drop section of GI cleaning rod down barrel, rod will not pass through barrel. Just my 2 cents
 
Taliv thanks. Some mornings the neurons obviously need more caffeine to jump start their firing. FSP = FSB, front sight block or base, as in gas block, got it. Acronyms don't always translate well.

There was a post somewhere last year about checking flex of the assembled upper in a fixture to measure it. The barrel bends, the upper bends, and the joint where the barrel extension fits in the upper was seen to bend also. Therefore, anything attached to the barrel nut would bend the joint, which can change the barrels point of aim. It would move coaxially right along with the tube. How much, who knows?

It would be nice to read a test on how much improvement in accuracy a free float could deliver. They do offer some users a lot of options for accessories. We probably all agree a free float does deliver, my issue is how much for the money?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top