Barrel Inserts

[Scowboy]

I keep seeing .45-70 barrel inserts on the market. How does one tell if their shotgun (especially double barrels) is up to shooting that cartridge? I've had a maker tell me to keep it at trap door loadings, but none have ever even given me a whisper when I asked about how to know if the gun is safe for the round.

Anyone have experience with this sorta thing?

Thanks!

 

[DocRock]

SAAMI max pressure for 45-70 (trapdoor) is 28,000 CUP and CIP is 28,000 psi .

SAAMI max pressure for 12 ga is 11,500 psi.

 

[d2wing]

I wouldn't. Sabot slugs might be a better option. Maybe a pistol round.

 

[LoonWulf]

Id have to cut open a shell and measure the base ID, but from what googles providing for information they should both be pretty close in terms of bolt thrust, simply because the 12ga has a much larger piston to work with.

The pressure I think is less of a concern in and of itself than action locking strength. The inserts should be able to handle the pressure for any round they are chambered for, as they are basically un-supported.

 

[omega5]

A tad off the subject but I have two 20 ga inserts in an old Savage Fox BS 12 gu and love it.
Shoots great. Back on topic, most of the adds I seen for 45.70, .44 mag and .357 mag all say to
have your gun examined by a certified gun smith before buying. Kind of leaves it up to you to
decide what a "certified" gun smith is.
Dano

 

[Scowboy]

SAAMI max pressure for 45-70 (trapdoor) is 28,000 CUP and CIP is 28,000 psi .

SAAMI max pressure for 12 ga is 11,500 psi.

There are those that think SAAMI pressure for trapdoors is actually too high for trapdoors.

I wasn't aware that SAAMI put a max pressure on shotguns themselves.

If 45-70 inserts were dangerous in-general, we'd hear about a lot of people blowing up their shotguns, but it's not something you hear a ton of. Mike Bellevue converted his Baikal into a double 45-70 (which is where I got the idea from). Something like a Stoeger tends to be more available. Some shotguns are certainly going to be a lot tougher than others. I was hoping there was a way to tell which were the weaker and which the stronger. If I decide to give it a go, I'll probably just pay the couple hundred extra bucks to get a Baikal shotgun. I just don't have anything approaching the money to get one of their double rifles.

I thought about getting pistol caliber inserts, but I don't see a use for it in a double rifle. I own a T/C Encore now, so I can just get a barrel made in literally any caliber I want, so that's the way I'm gonna go for the pistol caliber.



Yeah, I know this is thread necromancy. It's been rough year lol.

Thanks!

 

[DM~]

I've used several different ones, and I still have a few...

Does the gun go bang? Yes it does, do they hit anywhere near the sights of the gun? Sometimes!

DM

 

[jmorris]

I have dabbled with inserts a little and would suggest a 12 ga slug, if you are looking to extend your range, you are going to want something more accurate than an insert.

This one, 9” long, has usable accuracy out to 50 yards or so and is longer than most you see.



If you have a full length liner that fit well it might do better but would be quite heavy.

They are not that popular because they don’t work as well as a shot gun and a rifle. If you really want both, in the same gun, get an Encore with two barrels.

 

[webrx]

I have some 9” ones I put in a single shot 18.5” barrel. They are fun at the range, and I guess could be used in a pinch but not super accurate.
I have pistol calibers 22, .410, .20ga, 9mm, 38, 357, 45 colt. And 45 acp.

 

[TTv2]

A respected youtube channel did a series of the .45-70 inserts on Patreon and tested trapdoor loads in an H&R single shot, a Beretta over/under, and some single shot trap gun. The insert shot well in the HR and Beretta, not so much in the trap gun because it had some issue with the sights and the POI shift. Accuracy depends on what load the insert likes, they seem to prefer lighter 300-400 grain bullets, not the 500 grain behemoths. Groups at 25 yards were about one inch with open sights/bead sights.

All safe to shoot, the recoil is no different than shooting slugs and the pressure was not an issue.

My experiences with adapters in shotguns has been use big bore calibers because if you want the elevation to hit close to the POA on a shotgun using a bead sight or traditional front/rear sights you need a heavy projectile. Windage seems to be on regardless of caliber, but a light bullet like .22 or .32 and probably 9mm is not going to cut it. A 200 grain .38 or .357 may, IDK, what I do know is a 250 grain .45 ACP handload I did hit an inch from the POA at 25 yards and grouped under an inch.

The biggest benefit of the .45-70 in these adapters/inserts is the range of projectile weights; between 250 and 500 grains you are bound to find a bullet that shoots close to a shotgun's POA and in an over/under you might be able to tweak in two different loads that each barrel will prefer and will share the same impact point at a certain distance and make for a very nice, very versatile inexpensive double rifle in the field or you could stick with one insert and have a combination gun.

 

[Bob Meyer]

I have EAA 45-70 inserts in a Baikal 12 gauge double. I've always shot it with 325-350 grain factory ammo with good results and no problems. The action remains tight.

 

[MEHavey]

OOC: How is extraction accomplished ?

 

[entropy]

With quality inserts, they have an extractor actuated by the gun's own extractor/ejector.

They are not that popular because they don’t work as well as a shot gun and a rifle. If you really want both, in the same gun, get an Encore with two barrels.

Or a combo gun (usually shotgun over rifle) Cape gun, (SxS one rifle, one shotgun) Drilling (Usually SxS shotgun over rifle barrel, sometimes rifle barrel over SxS shotgun) Bockbuscheflinte (O/U shotgun over rifle, with a smaller rifle barrel on one side) or Vierling. (SxS shotgun larger rifle barrel underneath, smallbore (usually .22 Savage Hi-Power) in the rib, or rarer, the smallbore set just above the rifle barrel nestledbetween the SxS.

 

[DM~]