Barrel Leading With Coated Bullets

[eddiememphis]

My latest batch of 9mm hand loads leaves a lot of lead in the barrel of both my 4.25" 1911 and my 3.75" CZ.

135gr LRN from Summit City over 4.0 grains of W231 @ 1.125".
They measure .3555 to .3565. I am not over crimping them. I pulled the bullets and looked to see if the coating had been damaged and it looks fine, with a very slight indention at the case mouth.

I loaded Blue Bullets 135gr to the same specs and did not have this issue.

Is it the bullets or is there something I am doing wrong?

 

[nettlle]

It could be the bullets. I have had some brands lead and others not. I keep a .22 caliber bore brush that is wrapped with Chore Boy in my cleaning kit and give my barrels a few swipes when cleaning. Adds about 15 seconds to the cleaning process.

 

[WestKentucky]

Hammer test one. Beat it flat and see if the powder coat stays on or if it falls off. Beating on it your gonna lose some paint, but you shouldn’t lose a whole bunch.

here’s a video in case you aren’t familiar. I didn’t get a chance to watch it, so I’m hoping it’s at least decent.

 

[eddiememphis]

Hammer test one. I didn’t get a chance to watch it...

What is the "hammer test" supposed to prove?

Whacking a bullet with a mallet does not replicate what is happening in the barrel of a gun.

And why link to a video you have not seen?

That is not helpful.

 

[Soonerpesek]

What is the "hammer test" supposed to prove?

THIS:

Beat it flat and see if the powder coat stays on or if it falls off.

I am not over crimping them. I pulled the bullets and looked to see if the coating had been damaged and it looks fine, with a very slight indention at the case mouth.

This probably means they are "over" crimped....................As has been repeated by MANY here--------------Just enough to remove the flare.............

 

[sparkyv]

Actually, it's a common, useful test. It helps to show how well the coating adheres to the bullet. If it doesn't adhere well, it could contribute to leading in the barrel.

What is the "hammer test" supposed to prove?

Whacking a bullet with a mallet does not replicate what is happening in the barrel of a gun.

And why link to a video you have not seen?

That is not helpful.

 

[rfwobbly]

I would look at bullet-to-barrel fit first. My CZ's work best with 0.357/0.358" bullets. I get zero leading using MBC IDP#8.

https://missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=334&category=20&secondary=26&keywords=

 

[WestKentucky]

What is the "hammer test" supposed to prove?

Whacking a bullet with a mallet does not replicate what is happening in the barrel of a gun.

And why link to a video you have not seen?

That is not helpful.

It’s a well known useful test for anybody that powdercoats. It should be a well known test for people who use coated bullets, but seems like everybody just stuffs them in cases and wonders why they have occasional issues like leading, poor accuracy, not plunking…

And I linked a video because I recognized the handle of the YouTuber and trusted that they would give a fairly concise explanation of what it is, and why it’s useful. Excuse the heck out of me for having a job and still trying to contribute. I read posts and respond as I have time to while waiting for stuff to happen like for my customers to dig out returns, get lists of things that need ordered, or for salesmen from base to get back to me about things that I’m trying to order or sort out problems.

Maybe I should take my 2 cents worth and put it in the bank rather than try to be helpful, but that’s just not who I am.

I guess TheHighRoad isn’t what it used to be.

 

[nettlle]

There are no guarantees on bullets if one shoots thousands of them. The manufacturer may have his formula a little off and leading occurs. It has happened to me. Rather than play whack-o-mole with a hammer or the hassle of sending bullets back to the manufacturer I'll just give the bore a couple of swipes with Chore Boy. I don't have to do this very often.

 

[eddiememphis]

It’s a well known useful test for anybody that powdercoats. It should be a well known test for people who use coated bullets, but seems like everybody just stuffs them in cases and wonders why they have occasional issues like leading, poor accuracy, not plunking…

You had a bad day at work. I get it. We all have.

Don't stop posting. Explain your point so a knucklehead like me can understand.

I post on this site to try to learn.

While it "should" be well known, I have never heard of hammering a bullet to see if the coating remains adhered to the lead.

I don't understand how smashing a chunk of lead with a mallet can replicate the forces involved firing the same chunk down a contained barrel at 30,000 psi.

 

[eddiememphis]

I would look at bullet-to-barrel fit first. My CZ's work best with 0.357/0.358" bullets. I get zero leading using MBC IDP#8.

https://missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=334&category=20&secondary=26&keywords=

I have not had this issue with Missouri or Blue. Only this specific load. And in two different guns.

The Blue 135s worked very well. The Missouri 125 LSWCs are my favorite so far. Very accurate but I am always looking for something better.

I haven't tried Missouri's 135s. Thanks for the link.

 

[Otto]

If the Summits foul the bore and the Blues don’t….. then stick with the Blue Bullets. They’re also truncated which cut cleaner holes in paper.

 

[WestKentucky]

You had a bad day at work. I get it. We all have.

Don't stop posting. Explain your point so a knucklehead like me can understand.

I post on this site to try to learn.

While it "should" be well known, I have never heard of hammering a bullet to see if the coating remains adhered to the lead.

I don't understand how smashing a chunk of lead with a mallet can replicate the forces involved firing the same chunk down a contained barrel at 30,000 psi.

No I actually had a normal day at work. It’s a bunch of other stuff going on in life that has me stressed out and a little on edge. Nothing like moving and then finding out that your sold house isn’t sold anymore and that your suddenly paying 2 mortgages because you have already moved because your house was sold and you had to be out in 3 days… all because the guy who had a job offer was lied to and he’s in a worse spot than me because he moved 900 miles so I can’t even be mad at him.

As for the hammer test, no it’s not a perfect science, but a coating that comes off under a hammer is likely to come off when fired. The whack of a hammer does at least somewhat simulate the bullet impacting the lands in the barrel. If it get chewed up there it’s gonna compromise the seal of the bullet in the barrel. When gasses leak it melts the edges of the bullet and that’s where leading comes from. A whack with the hammer also gives a pretty basic assessment of hardness, and if the bullet is off on hardness then that causes issues as well. No your not gonna figure out that a BHN that’s supposed to be 15 is only 14.6 or some such with this test, but an experienced hand will know that something just feels off, even if they don’t know what it is or why they think it’s off. You might be able to tell hardball from softer alloy but even that would be a bit of a stretch. 18 to 14 is a wide enough range that would make a person kinda question if it was right though. And that might lead you to figuring out that the alloy is wrong for the application. THAT is easy to do, and it’s why so many casters specifically mark hardball alloys, soft alloys, range scrap, and wheel weights. It’s also why casters keep metals other than lead around so that they can fix hardness when it’s off. Every factory has new employees and employees make simple mistakes… sometimes the end user is the guy that finds it, but they won’t find it if they don’t know how.

 

[Shooterbob]

The smash with a hammer test is very well known method of seeing if the coating is cured correctly. If the coating flakes off from hammering the bullet flat it is not applied correctly. And will come off during firing causing leading. If the hammer test causes flaking or cracking contact the manufacturer.

 

[AJC1]

You had a bad day at work. I get it. We all have.

Don't stop posting. Explain your point so a knucklehead like me can understand.

I post on this site to try to learn.

While it "should" be well known, I have never heard of hammering a bullet to see if the coating remains adhered to the lead.

I don't understand how smashing a chunk of lead with a mallet can replicate the forces involved firing the same chunk down a contained barrel at 30,000 psi.

The test does not in any way replicate firing. It is an effective way to test for proper adhesion. I get a linear train of thought but it doesn't apply here.

 

[JCSC]

My latest batch of 9mm hand loads leaves a lot of lead in the barrel of both my 4.25" 1911 and my 3.75" CZ.

135gr LRN from Summit City over 4.0 grains of W231 @ 1.125".
They measure .3555 to .3565. I am not over crimping them. I pulled the bullets and looked to see if the coating had been damaged and it looks fine, with a very slight indention at the case mouth.

I loaded Blue Bullets 135gr to the same specs and did not have this issue.

Is it the bullets or is there something I am doing wrong?

View attachment 1161365
View attachment 1161366

This is a great visual. I had searched on line to see what lead fouling looked like.

 

[chevrofreak]

I've had leading with every coated bullet, except The Blue Bullets, which will actually scrub that leading out.

Certain powders cause way more problems. Titegroup was the worst offender for me.

 

[rfwobbly]

I haven't tried Missouri's 135s. Thanks for the link.

Not a lot of 135gr load info out there. You'll be safe if you simply split the difference between the Starting Loads for 124 and 147.
For instance if one is 5.0gr and the other is 4.2gr, then for 135gr it would be 4.6gr, or exactly halfway between.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I had issues with SNS casting bullets and titegroup leading.

 

[peeplwtchr]

My latest batch of 9mm hand loads leaves a lot of lead in the barrel of both my 4.25" 1911 and my 3.75" CZ.

135gr LRN from Summit City over 4.0 grains of W231 @ 1.125".
They measure .3555 to .3565. I am not over crimping them. I pulled the bullets and looked to see if the coating had been damaged and it looks fine, with a very slight indention at the case mouth.

I loaded Blue Bullets 135gr to the same specs and did not have this issue.

Is it the bullets or is there something I am doing wrong?

View attachment 1161365
View attachment 1161366

I had the same issue, which is why I don't use coated bullets. Pulled and new FMJs are cheaper at American Reloading anyway.

 

[Skgreen]

I've tried several flavors of coated. Blue Bullets seems to work the best for me.

YMMV

 

[AJC1]

I had the same issue, which is why I don't use coated bullets. Pulled and new FMJs are cheaper at American Reloading anyway.

I'm casting 158s for about 7 cents. The only bullet I found that was as cost effective was rmr 9mm bullets, so I didn't cast 9mm ever. The price of their 69s is about 3x what I can cast them for, but at the volume I shoot in a bolt gun I'd rather have less problems. For some reason 30-30 bullets are stupid expensive for their low velocity so I obviously cast those.... value is by individual gun not even caliber for me.... your situation may be entirely different

 

[peeplwtchr]

I'm casting 158s for about 7 cents. The only bullet I found that was as cost effective was rmr 9mm bullets, so I didn't cast 9mm ever. The price of their 69s is about 3x what I can cast them for, but at the volume I shoot in a bolt gun I'd rather have less problems. For some reason 30-30 bullets are stupid expensive for their low velocity so I obviously cast those.... value is by individual gun not even caliber for me.... your situation may be entirely different

I buy these alot. When they're in stock (Every week or two), they are 4 cents each, with 30% discount code, and free S&H. They usually have something in the same price range, if not these. Above 115 gr., they usually run about 5 cents each for 124gr, more for 147gr. I've shot thousands of thier various 9mm products.

https://americanreloading.com/9mm-3...ottom-1000ct.html?search_query=9mm&results=31

 

[.45Coltguy]

Hmm. I've not had any leading issues in my four handguns using Missouri or T & B coated bullets. Unique, Universal, Red Dot and 2400 used. I do not load hot, mid range loads only.
Clean bores.

 

[eddiememphis]

I did the hammer test and the coating stayed intact.

I push two of them through the bore of the CZ and quite a bit of the coating came off of both bullets.

The coating seems to be too thin.

I will stick with Blue and Missouri in the future.