Basic Casting Questions

[giggitygiggity]

I am debating getting into casting. I've been doing a fair amount of research and understand the process for the most part. The only thing that I am confused about is the bullet hardness. Specifically, how important is bullet hardness? I will likely use range scrap as it can be had for free or $1/pound. I realize that Lyman #2 is the gold standard, but if you purchase it new, it can run $2.50-$3/pound which is about as much as I can buy Berry's plated bullets for and not have to put in any labor. Can and should range scrap safely be cast without adding any tin or antimony?

Additionally, powder coating seems to be the new fad. As I understand, powder coating provides a sort of polymer jacket over the bullet which reduces leading, reduces smoke from lube, and has other benefits. It also seems that powder coating can reduce the need for a harder bullet because the powder coated jacket is so hard. Is this true? Is powder coating preferred?

I realize that answers may vary based on what I might be interested in casting. Below is a list of caliber for which I may potentially cast:

7.62x25mm
.32 ACP
.380 ACP
9x18 Mak
9x19 Luger
.40 S&W
.45 GAP
.45 ACP
.45 LC
.38 Spcl
.357 Mag
.44 Mag
.223 Rem
.270 WSM
7.5 French
7.5x55 Swede
.30 Carbine
.300 Blk
7.62x54R
.308 Win
.30-06 Sprg
.351 WSL
12 Gauge Buckshot
12 Gauge Slug

Any input or suggestions are welcomes. Thank you!

 

[dgod]

I would suggest that you start with a single caliber, ie 30 cal (.308/.309), which will cover: 7.62 x 25, 30 Carbine, 300 Blkout, 7.62x54, .308, and 30-06, as they are all 30 caliber loads. Then after you get a taste, you can add calibers. I personally cast & load 38/357, 9MM, 45ACP/45LC, 30 Cal (300 AAC, 308, 30-30, 308,, 30-06, & 300 WinMag). I even have Hollow Point molds for 9MM & 45ACP. If you go down this road, after casting, you will need to size the resultant cast bullets to ensure uniform and accurate size. This can be accomplished with several methods. I have a RCBS Lube-A-Matic (Several Calibers) as well as the Lee Bullet Sizer (Several Calibers). The Lee method comes in several calibers. The LAM uses Sizers and Push tools for each caliber. The LAM allows for easier Lubing than the Tray & Rolling around method. I have both. I use the LAM especially if I need to use Gas Checks, and/or Lube. I use the Lee if I do not plan to Lube, it is faster than the LAM. I also have a Bullet Hardness Tester that will give me a good idea as to how hard by cast bullets are.

I read a post here on THR that talked about dropping the cast bullets into water to cause them to cool down faster. It is remarkable how well this works, it really surprised me how well when I cast about 250 38 cal 160gr SWC's yesterday, they turned out exceptional.

It is not cheap to start Casting, I suggest a Lead Pot that has a spout on the bottom of the pot to permit easy placement of lead in the mold. I also recommend RCBS Molds, as they are Steel, they hold heat better than the Lee molds. Sometimes Lee is the only one that makes a specific bullet you may be searching for.

I usually do not lube pistol loads, as they do not especially need it, Rifle loads I usually Lube during the sizing activity with the LAM.

I will tell you that Casting, then Loading, then Shooting Cast bullets is VERY rewarding. Rates right up there with shooting your first reloads.

Good Luck
Dan

 

[35 Whelen]

I am debating getting into casting. I've been doing a fair amount of research and understand the process for the most part. The only thing that I am confused about is the bullet hardness. Specifically, how important is bullet hardness? I will likely use range scrap as it can be had for free or $1/pound. I realize that Lyman #2 is the gold standard, but if you purchase it new, it can run $2.50-$3/pound which is about as much as I can buy Berry's plated bullets for and not have to put in any labor. Can and should range scrap safely be cast without adding any tin or antimony?

Additionally, powder coating seems to be the new fad. As I understand, powder coating provides a sort of polymer jacket over the bullet which reduces leading, reduces smoke from lube, and has other benefits. It also seems that powder coating can reduce the need for a harder bullet because the powder coated jacket is so hard. Is this true? Is powder coating preferred?

I realize that answers may vary based on what I might be interested in casting. Below is a list of caliber for which I may potentially cast:

7.62x25mm
.32 ACP
.380 ACP
9x18 Mak
9x19 Luger
.40 S&W
.45 GAP
.45 ACP
.45 LC
.38 Spcl
.357 Mag
.44 Mag
.223 Rem
.270 WSM
7.5 French
7.5x55 Swede
.30 Carbine
.300 Blk
7.62x54R
.308 Win
.30-06 Sprg
.351 WSL
12 Gauge Buckshot
12 Gauge Slug

Any input or suggestions are welcomes. Thank you!

Bullet hardness depends on several factors. I mostly cast for and shoot handguns and .30 caliber rifles. 99% of my handgun bullets are cast from air-cooled clip on wheelweights (ACWW), and with a Bhn of 12-13, they're plenty hard and I've run plain base bullets as fast as 1200 fps without any appreciable leading. Same goes for some of my old levers in 38-40 and 44-40 running plain base cast bullets 1300 fps or so without any problems with leading. The moulds for my .30 caliber rifles are all of the gas check variety and velocities to 1600 fps can be had with little to no leading. I've even run some hunting loads as fast as 2000 fps but have to remove a little lead from the bores after 10 or so shots. If/when I need harder bullets I simply drop the bullets directly from the mould into a 5 gallon bucket of tap water. I cast some 9mm bullets from range scrap, which consisted of about 85% cast bullets and 15% jacketed, using this method just yesterday and just return from the shop and testing their hardness which was 22 Bhn. So with range scrap you should be in really good shape.

Understand that bore condition has a great deal to do with leading. I used to shoot a Swiss K-31 in High Power matches using cast bullets running 1400 fps. I could easily fire 100 rounds in a match and not have one iota of leading. The super smooth bores of these rifles helps immensely. Conversely, a rough bore will lead regardless of alloy hardness.

I have not, nor will I ever powder coat. Here's my take on it:

Eliminates cleaning bullet lube from seating dies- With a short cleaning rod and a patch wet with carburetor or brake cleaner, this is a 60 second job that needs to be performed once for every couple hundred rounds loaded, or so. Some of my caliber such as the .44 Special and 45 Colt might go a few hundred rounds without needing lube cleaned from the seating dies.
Eliminates leading- I'm sure it does, but so does an alloy with the proper hardness and a bullet properly sized to fit the groove diameter of the barrel. Seems unnecessary to me to use good hard alloy such as hard range scrap or WW's then cover it. I suppose if one wanted to cast with pure lead then run the bullets at high velocity, the PC-ing would have merits, but alloy that doesn't have sufficient quantities of tin and antimony rarely casts good, well filled out bullets.
Eliminates smoke- I am blessed to have my own range a couple hundred feet from my house, so this is not an issue. Even then, wax based lube such as that the commercial casters use smokes little if any.
PC-ing, compared to traditional lubricating is quite time consuming. With my Star push-thru lubrisizer I can lube and size 20 bullets per minute just loafing and 30 per minute if I really hustle. A traditional lubrisizer will do 8-10 per minute.

By all means, read this online reference:

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm

Absolutely everything you'll ever need to know about cast bullets.

If you want, you can skip right to Chapter 3 and read about alloy: http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_3_alloySelectionMetallurgy.htm

35W

 

[dgod]

Excellent information...

 

[earplug]

Powder coating works great if your loading on a progressive press, bullet feeders won't jam and dies stay clean. The lack of lube, smoke and leading is almost like shooting jacketed. If your shooting indoors the lack of smoke makes rapid fire more accurate.
I use a simple, cheap LEE push through sizing die that mounts on a single stage press. I use the little LEE benchpress. Gas checks are not needed with Powder coating. You can get started in powder coating with a jug from Harbor Freight, an old convection oven from a thrift store/craiglist and some wire mesh trays. I use the shake and bake method.
If you live in a area without a supply of lead wheel weights. PC works fine with soft scrap lead. No need to buy a hardness tester or stock a variety of bullet lubes. PC allows you to color code your rounds.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Ive ran some soft lead as low as 7 BHN through my 9mm after i coated them with no leading.

Faster velocities and higher pressures like rifle loads out to 2,000 fps or more are better with harder lead.

I mostly cast with lead from clip on wheel weights (COWW) and they produce a wide range of hardness for anything from 9mm and 45 up to 44 magnum just by water dropping air cooling or baking the bullets.

Great resource for cast bullets, bullet hardness and mistures. ....
http://www.lasc.us/castbulletnotes.htm

 

[Kevin Rohrer]

Get the Lyman Casting book and read it.

 

[dgod]

Here is another tidbit:
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_textonly2.pdf

 

[blue32]

Start with a cartridge that will allow you to use your range scrap without modification to hardness. Any of your listed pistol automatics and specials would be a great start. Going straight to rifle will necessitate harder alloys, gas checks, and extra dies which enlarge and flare rifle necks. I'm currently figuring out loads for a 260 Rem and its a bit more involved than churning out a bucket of 230 gr. lrn using range scrap and sizing/lubing to .452". After you play around with that for a while it will give you a better foundation regarding hardness and fit.