BATFE making all pistols AOW?

[armoredman]

Look at this proposed rule change, redefing "pistols". If interpreted by Feinslime, it woul make every semi-auto pistol, or even Double Action revolver, an AOW by NFA 34, requireing tax stamp, background investigation by BATFE, fingerprints, CLEO approval, etc.... See here...scroll down to the firearms section. I hope I am wrong, and just need a new tinfoil hat, but I don't think so....
http://www.regulations.gov/TOPIC_27.cfm

 

[Psssniper]

I am not a laywer nor do I claim to understand how to read and interpret this
leaglese that follows, but it sure reads like its bad for us, anyone else??

(hopefully easier link) http://www.regulations.gov/freddocs/05-06932.htm

 

[cordex]

Doesn't look like a big change in policy to me. This does not affect all pistols.

A weapon that meets the definition of ``pistol'' with a rifled bore
falls outside the definition of ``any other weapon'' and is therefore
not classified as an NFA weapon.

In fact, what it looks like they're saying is "Could you please pass a law that says that the way we're already enforcing our will is legal?"

The Department believes that the NFA definition of the term
``pistol'' should be revised to more accurately reflect the
Department's position concerning the weapons subject to regulation
under the ``any other weapon'' category of the NFA.

 

[gvass]

"The added language is
necessary to clarify that certain weapons, including any weapon
disguised to look like an item other than a firearm or any gun that
fires more than one shot without manual reloading by a single function
of the trigger, are not pistols and are classified as ``any other
weapon'' under the NFA.
"

You misinterpreted the thing.

trigger pull-than-let go forward-than pull again is required for "more than one shot"

It is not a "single function"!

 

[Firethorn]

I think your hat needs replacing. The wording is simply to more strictly define the pistol exemption to the 'other weapons' category. IE Belt buckle guns, camera guns, cell phone guns, and such are not defined as 'pistols'.

The trigger part is to remove full-auto pistols from being exempted by their being pistols.

Still, I'd like to repeal the whole NFA, but then, that's me.

 

[armoredman]

Yeah I understand

A weapon that meets the definition of ``pistol'' with a rifled bore
falls outside the definition of ``any other weapon'' and is therefore
not classified as an NFA weapon.

But they change the definiton of "pistol" to render semis outside of that definiton, regardless of rifled bore or not. I think that's what's going on here.If I need a new tinfoil beanie, lemme know, but that's how I read it.

 

[Rupestris]

fires more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger

If you take out whats between the commas (poorly worded anyway) you get the the idea.

...fires more than one shot, ---, by a single function of the trigger...

Meaning full auto handguns or the "cell phone" guns that would fire three or four rounds at the same time when triggered.

 

[armoredman]

Ok, never mind, I just see the possabilty of serious abuse by BATFE, in saying manual reloading is single shot only, but I will bow to the majority and subside. Thank you! Anyone know a sale on tinfoil?

 

[Aguila Blanca]

No need to apologize. It is always wise to be extra careful when any alphabet agency decides they want to change their rules.

In this case, though, I agree with those who see this as no harm, no foul. Too bad they want to make pen guns AOW, but the pistol definition seems aimed at machine pistols and "gadget guns," not semi-autos.

 

[beerslurpy]

It sounds like the definition of machine gun just got moved to AOW. Which definition takes precedence? Isnt one trigger pull- many bullets always a machine gun no matter what else is true?

I say repeal the entire NFA and send the ATF south to guard our borders like real public servants.

 

[jefnvk]

or any gun that fires more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.

That is the phrase that keeps getting me. What exactly is manual reloading? When I first read that, I ttok it to mean something like a single action revolver.

But then again, I can see that perhaps it is simply to keep a machine gun from being classified as an AOW.

 

[model 649]

I'm with Beerslurpy, isn't prohibition over?
Josh

 

[dav]

They really should know better than to use multiple commas in any law.

Haven't we all been fighting because of that in the 2nd Amendment for over two hundred years?

It's obvious what it says, but is juussstt vague enough that it can be challenged by those desiring to do so.

 

[CleverName]

I think what it's saying is that if you press and hold the trigger, and it fires one shot, you release and press and it fires another shot, it's ok. If you press and hold the trigger, and you can fire another shot IF you do something else manually (eg fan the hammer with a revolver), it's OK. But a Beretta 93R now requires the Machine Gun stamp and the AOW stamp. A simple statement of intent would be so useful.

 

[Blackburn]

What was the deal with machine pistols such as the Glock18 and 93R before this?

 

[beerslurpy]

I thought that an item couldnt belong to two NFA categories at once.

Short barreled shotguns are clearly non-sporting, but they arent taxxed twice for being destructive 50+ cal destructive devices. Pistol shotguns are AOWs although they clearly fit the definition of destructive device.

Similarly, a short barreled machine gun that fires shotgun shells is not a destructive device or a short barreled shotgun. It is a machine gun, taxxed once, despite matching the definitions of all 3.

Then again a suppressed SBR is taxxed twice, as is a suppressed MG. I think the moral is that the law says one thing and the ATF basically does whatever it thinks it can get away with.

Why the hell are suppressors still restricted? Those are legal in England for chrissakes.

 

[DMF]

 

[CleverName]

Reading a few othe posts on this thread, it appears the intent was to ban weapons which fired multiple shots when the "trigger" was pressed - like when a coach gun fires both barrels because it's worn out, except small hand-held pager-looking "guns". I guess the G18 and 93R and other FA pistols are still Machine Guns, not AOW, and semi-autos are safe.

All dependent on BATFE interpretation though. Boo.

 

[sturmruger]

From my reading this is not that big of a deal. They are mostly tyring to make sure they can regulate pen guns and other such hideout weapons.

 

[saltydog]

Short barreled shotguns are clearly non-sporting

Here is that phrase "non-sporting" that has caused all the Major Problems with firearms since it was concieved. Personally what the hell is the difference in shooting at a target, using a shotgun, with either a 12" barrel or one with a 20" barrel? Say the threat was 10' away. Which is the most lethal (oximoron statement) if both shotguns contain 00 buck? This is all BS. Its never been about "sporting", its real intent is called "control".

 

[beerslurpy]

Dude, youre preaching to the choir.

Check out the thread about Ron Paul's repeal of all the sporting purposes language in the US Code. Write your rep.

 

[rick_reno]

I looked at it - double up the tinfoil on your hat. I don't think this is anything to worry about.

 

[longeyes]

"Make that one shot count."

~Hawkeye

 

[Mark in California]

Look Out

I am worried. All my semi handguns reload on firing not on the release of the trigger. I think this could be used by ATF to further regulate firearms ownership into history. Look how it is written, and then think of how it could be applied under its worst interpretation.

Second, the defination was changed at the last moment in 1968 for a reason. Why should we accept a "correction" now? Who says it was error? That was 38 years ago and everyone who was involved in the rule making process is probley retired. We should not just roll over, we should demand full hearing and Representation on this matter. Any change to firearms regulations should require all formalities to be observed.

Finally, if ATF wants to change the rules we have followed since 1968 on what is a pistol, then they should declare another Amnesty for all the weapons owners who now have weapons that they are about to regulat out of existance or are in legal limbo.

 

[Burt Blade]

Do you folks remember what happened to shotguns, not too long ago? Suddenly, some perfectly-legal and perfectly-useful repeating shotguns became _destructive devices_. Or, do you remember when many gun owners sold out the full-auto crowd to get the (so called) "firearm owners protection act"? We are getting "interpreted" and compromised into serfdom.

They want them _all_. They want _your_ guns. If they are not talking about yours today, they will be tomorrow. Stop throwing your associates to the wolves hoping to be spared.

_Your_ hands are what they mean by "the wrong hands".