bbc report on militarization of police in US

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taliv

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interesting bits

Peter Kraska, an expert on police militarisation from Eastern Kentucky University, says that in the 1980s there were about 3,000 Swat team deployments annually across the US, but says now there are at least 40,000 per year.

<snip>

Mr Kraska believes there has been an explosion of units in smaller towns and cities, where training and operational standards may not be as high as large cities - a growth he attributes to "the hysteria" of the country's war on drugs.

The NTOA rejects Mr Kraska's figures and says the actual number of deployments is far lower, but says there is a need for national training standards.

An NTOA study of 759 Swat team deployments across the US, found half were for warrant service and a third for incidents where suspects had barricaded themselves in a building - 50 were for hostage situations.

When criminology professor David Klinger looked at 12 years of data on Swat teams in 1998, he also found the most common reason for calling out teams was serving warrants, but that the units used deadly force during warrant service only 0.4% of the time.



his conclusion is spot on

"The problem is that when you talk about the war on this and the war on that, and police officers see themselves as soldiers, then the civilian becomes the enemy."
 
well, it's probably quite frightening for people who are used to their policemen saying "stop, or i'll say stop again"
 
his conclusion is spot on

"The problem is that when you talk about the war on this and the war on that, and police officers see themselves as soldiers, then the civilian becomes the enemy."

No, it is not spot on. First, it assumes that the police see themselves as soldiers. I can honestly say that I don't know a single cop who considers the job being military. In regard to the number of SWAT deployments somehow being indicative of anything, it shows that at least we know to properly organize, prepare, and protect officers in high risk work than in the past we did not do and as a result a lot of officers ended up dead.

So if cops see themselves as soldiers and that means the civilian becomes the enemy, if you follow the logic for real soldiers, that means every other military in the world is the enemy of the US Soldiers. Obviously, not all other militaries are our enemies and similarly not all civilians are seen as the enemy either unless they are those who break the law. D'uh.

Many civilians really are the enemy. In Mr. Rogers voice, "Can you say Terrorist? Sure, I knew you could."
 
No disrespect to any individual LEO, but the majority of my experiences with law enforcement have shown that they regard themselves as superior to all. Even when I was in the marines they considered me a 'amateur' when it came to firearms and the carrying of such. Used to boggle my mind that a police officer considered himself more professional with his 9mm than I was with my 5.56 and my .45. :rolleyes:
 
00 Spy, I hope that it true for local law enforecement, but I don't think it is all that true for feds. I got the definite impression from Waco that the BATF and FBI guys were wannabe-commandos. That mindset gave them the idea to gun in with guns blazing, instead of just nabbing Koresh when he went on a walk. "When your only tool is a hammer, every problem is a nail." As the compound was burning, and I believe the winds/flames had blown away the Davidian's flag, the BATF raised their own.
 
I can honestly say that I don't know a single cop who considers the job being military.

I have seen posts on this board contrary to that statement. Some LEO consider themselves "para-military" with the same "rank structure." My limited experience shows me that some (most likely a minority) approach the job with that mindset.

jmm
 
I have a friend who is a former Sheriff's Deputy who is absolutely apalled at the militarization of law enforcement in this country. I used to look at him kind of sideways whenever he would begin his rant, but I am beginning to see his point.
 
Some LEO consider themselves "para-military" with the same "rank structure."
I work/talk with police officers from all over the country as part of my job. I'd say 85-95% couldn't care less if I call them by their first name. But there's always a small percentage that gets positively offended if I don't address them by their rank. "I'm sorry... Captain, it won't happen again." :rolleyes: Like any other group of people, there's always a subset that take themselves way too seriously.
If I meet an officer out around town I always respectfully refer to them as "officer," but when I'm working with them on the phone trying to help them get their information management systems working, it just makes things a lot harder if I have to constantly remember everyone's rank and refer to them thusly. Most realize this, but as I said there's that small subset that demands to be addressed by their rank.
 
I can honestly say that I don't know a single cop who considers the job being military.

Many civilians really are the enemy.

How can you make these two statements in the same argument? I thought cops were civilian law enforcement. You have to admit that to even use the term 'civilian' in that context places you squarely with those you claim not to know.
 
while i agree with the last several posters, that's not really the point here. the point isn't rank or structure or stuff like that. it's an operational mindset.

joe beatcop typically takes an andy griffith mindset of 'protect and serve'.

you dress guys in black hoods and outfit them with machine guns and you can pretty much guarantee that human nature will take over and they'll have a military mindset.

things like "innocent until proven guilty" will be far from their minds
 
joe beatcop typically takes an andy griffith mindset of 'protect and serve'.
Not so much anymore since the Supreme Court declared the police do not have a duty to protect the individual.

Now its "CYA and come home alive every night" by loading up on the M16s and body armor. :scrutiny:
 
I can honestly say that I don't know a single cop who considers the job being military.

Read Christopher Whitcomb's Cold Zero about his days in the FBI HRT under
Commander Dick Rogers (Whitcomb uses a pseudonym for Rogers however).
HRT was run like the Marine Corps, not like Andrew Jackson Taylor's bailiwick.

The intent of the Posse Commitatus Act was to avoid blurring the line
between military and police, but the War on Drugs, etc. allow crossing
that line. ATF got Special Forces training at Ft. Hood for the Branch
Davidian raid by making a bogus meth lab claim.

On the otherhand, good training for dangerous situations can avoid
disasters like the Little Bohemia raid, where the FBI shot three hotel
guests and missed the Dillinger gang.
 
Just to add my $0.02. Anyone notice that when it is a LEO that shoots someone it is generally listed as accidental, but when non-LEOs do it is negligent? As for the rest of it, I agree that most police agencies now are going for the "para-military" style organizations. In fact I almost joined a PD around where I grew up and one of their main selling points was that they were a "para-military" organization.

-C4-
 
I enjoyed the article. It is rediculous to expect that the machine guns, ninja garb, and COMBAT training will not go to their head. From the history I remember, there was no mention of LEOs being better armed then the civilians they were to serve and protect. How much before we just have every cop in body armor running around dressed like a ninja? This just seems to get worse and worse.
 
this combined with the police state thread...hmmm

Sounds like the feds are getting all the LEOs used to going after the problem people. And eventually, that will be anyone they are directed too, criminals or just plain joe taxpayer. They are starting by aggressively going after some legitimate crime issues, but what will they do when those are all resolved. What will be the next "big" crime element to be squashed next?

I mean really, how long is it going to be until we have our own military employed to fight battles against us, the citizens of the united states. Look how hard the lock down was in NYC after 9/11. People were arrested for having video cameras and taking pictures. Taking pictures, what do you think our government is hiding from us. AN AGENDA that is fully underway is my guess.

I'm not defending the rights of criminals who are perpetrating crimes with violence and guns. And as one stated on this post, ATL needs some help. However, have you noticed that everytime some cult assembles and gets enough people to really start believing that the government is really out to get them, the government comes in and "gets" them. Waco come to mind. I don't recall Koresh ever brandishing a gun, I don't recall guns in anyones hands except the hands of the authorities, but I was much younger then, and it's late now, so please forgive any obvious facts I'm leaving out.

But, the state of affairs going where the Bush Administration is taking it, they will soon be taking what few rights I have left away and coming and taking whatever the corporations who wield the marionette strings desire.


jeepmor
 
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Sounds like the feds are getting all the LEOs used to going after the problem people. And eventually, that will be anyone they are directed too, criminals or just plain joe taxpayer. They are starting by aggressively going after some legitimate crime issues, but what will they do when those are all resolved. What will be the next "big" crime element to be squashed next?

I mean really, how long is it going to be until we have our own military employed to fight battles against us, the citizens of the united states. Look how hard the lock down was in NYC after 9/11. People were arrested for having video cameras and taking pictures. Taking pictures, what do you think our government is hiding from us. AN AGENDA that is fully underway is my guess.

I'm not defending the rights of criminals who are perpetrating crimes with violence and guns. And as one stated on this post, ATL needs some help. However, have you noticed that everytime some cult assembles and gets enough people to really start believing that the government is really out to get them, the government comes in and "gets" them. Waco come to mind. I don't recall Koresh ever brandishing a gun, I don't recall guns in anyones hands except the hands of the authorities, but I was much younger then, and it's late now, so please forgive any obvious facts I'm leaving out.

But, the state of affairs going where the Bush Administration is taking it, they will soon be taking what few rights I have left away and coming and taking whatever the corporations who wield the marionette strings desire.


jeepmor

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Very good posting. I esecially agree with your last paragraph. I do believe that eventually we will ose it all and that are country will lose what made it great.
 
"The problem is that when you talk about the war on this and the war on that, and police officers see themselves as soldiers, then the civilian becomes the enemy."
Interesting; I just came across this article and thought it relevent to another thread on the police state. And very apt it is on all counts.

-----------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org
 
Put a young person through a police academy, with boot camp paramilitary training, what do you get.............

Me. You get me . Out of the Marine Corps, into a CJ program at a small local college, through an Academy, and now deputized by a county Sheriff.

No police force I have ever had contact with is anything like the Marine Corps, save for rank structure.
 
Alot of police organizations....

are military wannabees.......Next time a police official is interviewed on the tube look at his uniform. You now see medals and ribbons, and the rank insigina. When I was a LEO, you had the Chief, captains, lts, sgts, corporals, and on down. Now, you have 4 star generals and on down. Look at all of the military style equipment now in use, plus tanks, etc. I have never seen a police officer shooting at a range that is more qualified in firearms than I am.....I guess living in the city has hardened my take on cops. From what I have seen, I would never have put up with such actions and attitudes by my men in my former department......chris3
 
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