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Bear country carry piece (handgun)?

Discussion in 'Hunting' started by jski, Mar 15, 2020.

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  1. Antihero

    Antihero Member

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    Exactly.

    For some reason all bear encounters are in a field, with plenty of warning while you stare into the bears eyes from a distance of 100 feet, literally it's an Old West shootout at high noon.

    It's ridiculous
     
  2. Antihero

    Antihero Member

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    The head is actually a bad place to shoot a bear anyway, the skull is thick and sloped heavily. I mean, I guess if you could get a round thru it's mouth sure.


    Most handgun rounds are weak and a lot of people forget that. The 10mm we are talking about here? Roughly a third of the muzzle energy of a 30-30.

    How many people recommend a 30-30 again bigger bear? And we are talking a third of the muzzle energy
     
  3. mcb

    mcb Member

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    Again we are not talking about hunting bear we are talking about carrying a handgun for bear defense, and likely other utilities.

    https://www.americanhunter.org/arti...ishermen-from-raging-grizzly-with-9mm-pistol/
    TL;DR: Large brown bear, in very heavy cover, at close range, shot with a 9mm, a single stack at that. He fired 6 shots at only feet away from the bear. Bear died.

    Again I am not saying the the 9mm is the best choice or even a good choice but they are just bears, flesh and blood, not some demon possessed up-armored were-bear. The guide's experience, cool-head (unlike this thread) and confident skill with his handgun was more than a match for this bear.

    Regular grizzly bear:
    [​IMG]

    Bear as imagined by internet handgun discussion boards (except the were-bear would have an armored helmet on too):
    [​IMG]

    The guide would have prevailed as well or better with a 10mm double stack or his usually 44 Mag revolver. Again it's the Indian not the arrow.

    I still carry the Javelin just in case I run into the second kind... :D The tandem warhead works on reactive-armor and spaced-armor of shield and breast plate. :rofl: I ain't goin' to be (were) bear chow.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2020
  4. Paco42

    Paco42 Member

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    And that’s not unreasonable. Neither is it unreasonable to consider 10mm a starting point. When faced with small amounts of reliable data (as here), large amounts of flying BS —<ahem>, in/around an arena where emotions, impressions, desires, and tightly-held beliefs are often resorted to before rational thought, it’s not always easy to determine the perimeter of “reasonable”. Thus, this sort of developing bruin-haha. It becomes a pick-your-poison sort of affair, really.

    It’s clear that at least sometimes as disparaged cartridge (e.g., 9mm, let’s say) can help get the job done, even with a brown bear. It’s also clear that sometimes an old stand-by (such as .357 Mag) can “fail”—for examples, see the ammoland article referenced above. It actually is interesting reading.

    I said “help get the job done”, and used quotation marks to denote “fail” because of something too often noted, then ignored: the firearm is only part of the response to a charging/attacking bear. There are many other things that come into play, including, of course, defensive-fire skills, the ability to remain cool under pressure, simple physical abilities, manner of carry and accessibility of firearm, presence of other deterrents/weapons, presence of other animals, such as horses or dogs, presence of other people (and the skills and on-hand equipment of those people), time of day/daylight, weather, terrain, and, yes, even luck.

    So, choose carefully whom you listen to, think well about what they say, and then proceed. Recognizing that even the best plans may “fail”, at least occasionally. I can’t recall which famous general said that battle plans don’t survive intact beyond first contact with the enemy, but I mention it because there’s an important truth there. Napoleon may have been history’s greatest general. Or maybe it was Alexander. Or maybe Clausewitz. Or...it doesn’t really matter. None of them went undefeated.
     
  5. Antihero

    Antihero Member

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    So bear are somehow harder to kill when hunting, a time where you have an element of surprise and a good amount of time to get a good shot? Explain your logic

    And yeah, he used Buffalo Bore ammo, I have a box of it somewhere. He was lucky and skilled. Never plan for the former and few are the later.

    I don't think bear are some sort of mythical creature, I've just literally seen many of them and have lived in the woods for decades. I sometimes wonder if some have ever even seen one before.
     
  6. mcb

    mcb Member

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    Nope bears are just as hard to kill all the times but I suspect that are not as hard to kill as some in this thread would have us believe. But when you are hunting them (I personally don't, no interest) you are actively attempting to close distance and interact with them so using plenty of gun is both prudent and ethical. When you are carrying a handgun for self-defense against bears it is the last option in a (hopefully) larger plan to avoid contact and interaction with bears. Due to this and other factors of each persons personal situation/task you may not carry a handgun powerful enough to ethically hunt with but would be sufficient to for defense. There are plenty of examples of moderately powerful handguns being sufficient for bear defense. Yes it is a compromise but most things are.

    In my experience Luck favors the prepared/skilled.
     
  7. Antihero

    Antihero Member

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    Exactly how far away are you thinking you hunt?

    In that scenario self defence distance is somehow farther than hunting distance?!?
     
  8. Antihero

    Antihero Member

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    And it's not like bear are armored or anything, you just need enough gun
     
  9. mcb

    mcb Member

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    Not sure what you getting at here? When you are hunting bear you are attempting to kill them, hopefully ethically. You are seeking them. You are creating the encounter. When you carry a handgun for bear defense you are simply trying to survive, avoidance is optimal, lethal force is a last resort of hopefully many options.

    I have been saying that since my first post in this thread, in a very sarcastic ways in many cases but I completely agree. Evidence is most handguns prove sufficient when push comes to shove.

    Carry as much gun as you are comfortable with. Others may be comfortable with less, that should not make you uncomfortable unless they owe you money. :D
     
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  10. Antihero

    Antihero Member

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    I see what you mean by the first bit
     
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  11. d2wing

    d2wing Member

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    Where I camp, hunt and walk is in Black bear country, I saw two last summer and another got my garbage. This is of interest to me but I generally don't think about arming myself. Maybe it would be different in Alaska. I have a .44 Mag but I'd be more likely to carry a .357, or maybe a .40. A surveyor has a difficult job and has to go where the job takes him. He needs to give it a lot of consideration. Me, not so much.
     
  12. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator Staff Member

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    The constants in a bear defense thread.

    1. 10MM vs 41Mag......

    2. The guy who recommends a field artillery piece. (Not funny and worn out, get some new material.)

    3. The worn out and tiresome revolver vs auto argument

    4. Pointing out that pistol rounds are far less powerful than rifle rounds. (Thank you, none of us knew that this time.:cool:)

    5. Very few engaging in these threads have ever encountered a bear in the Wild much less a grizz or a costal brown bear.

    6. They always, and I mean always, degrade into a turd fest.

    7. We have a sticky up where you can see exactly all of the above and you can see that bear threads NEVER provide any new information and accomplish NOTHING other than following the time proven and useless script.

    Good day and NOPE!
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
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