Bear defence gun 44 or 454

[Zaydok Allen]

I love how that hyperlink reads like a bear killed the entire state of Alaska.

charging-bear-killed-alaska

 

[ArchAngelCD]

So many people read forums and regurgitate what they read to sound smart by repeating what everyone else says. So many claim Buffalo Bore or Underwood is the best ammo available for everything on Earth because they claim highest speeds for their ammo. While I'm sure it's pretty good ammo just because it's fast doesn't make it good or best especially for hunting or animal defense.

IMO and only my opinion the bullet used against dangerous animals is very important. Ammo made by companies like Garrett Cartridges and the Grizzly Cartridge Company are much better choices. The bullets are designed for deep penetration and will hold together when hitting heavy bones. If you are going to use a gun for bear defense you might want to look into their ammo. (again, only my opinion)

http://www.garrettcartridges.com
http://www.grizzlycartridge.com

There are others but those are two I have first hand experience with. I use Cast Performance Bullets for handloading hunting ammo which are used in Grizzly Cartridges ammo, their sister company.

 

[Tradmark]

The best thing about the 454 is you can handily do the job with an aframe of a barnes which will do imminently more damage than any solid out of either is why i would use the 454. Its very easily to control. Just practice.

 

[MaxP]

So many people read forums and regurgitate what they read to sound smart by repeating what everyone else says. So many claim Buffalo Bore or Underwood is the best ammo available for everything on Earth because they claim highest speeds for their ammo. While I'm sure it's pretty good ammo just because it's fast doesn't make it good or best especially for hunting or animal defense.

IMO and only my opinion the bullet used against dangerous animals is very important. Ammo made by companies like Garrett Cartridges and the Grizzly Cartridge Company are much better choices. The bullets are designed for deep penetration and will hold together when hitting heavy bones. If you are going to use a gun for bear defense you might want to look into their ammo. (again, only my opinion)

http://www.garrettcartridges.com
http://www.grizzlycartridge.com

There are others but those are two I have first hand experience with. I use Cast Performance Bullets for handloading hunting ammo which are used in Grizzly Cartridges ammo, their sister company.

I have used or witnessed the use of numerous loads from all four of the above mentioned manufacturers (on game) and can say with honesty they are all very good. Cast bullets are not my first choice when heavy bone may be on the menu as it compromises reliability with cast bullets. About the toughest cast bullets I have ever used are those by Garrett. They are in a class of their own IMHO. The Rimrock bullets that Buffalo Bore uses are among my favorite commercially cast bullets. One thing you can say about Buffalo Bore is that there is truth in advertising when it comes to claimed velocities as they usually (in my testing) exceed the claimed speed.

 

[Pat Riot]

With my luck, if I only carried bear spray the wind would be against me.

With my luck, if I had bear spray and a gun, the use of bear spray first would probably waste valuable seconds when I should have used the gun.

In a perfect world one would not be nervous in a bear incident and could pull the gun and the pepper spray, one in each hand, and fend off the bear, hopefully without needing the gun.

Then we have the real world where the odds of actually encountering a bear that is bent on killing and eating you are very slim.

I would prefer to be prepared than to have the last thought that I have in this life, just before the bear crushes my head in his powerful jaws with the stench of rotten bear breath mixed with my last breaths, be “Gee, I had a better chance of dying due to bee and wasp stings...huh...I sure wish I would have brought that revolver with me...”

 

[cheygriz]

You would actually believe anything in Field and Stream??

 

[cheygriz]

I personally feel bear spray is for people who aren’t confident/comfortable with a gun.

I think that after 15 years as a police firearms instructor and over 50 years as a big game hunter that I am "comfortable" with guns.

I am also comfortable with what true professionals like forest rangers, wildlife biologists and game wardens use.

I am not comfortable with the the rants of typewriter jockeys whose job is to sell the latest gun their publication advertises..

 

[MidRoad]

With my luck, if I only carried bear spray the wind would be against me.

With my luck, if I had bear spray and a gun, the use of bear spray first would probably waste valuable seconds when I should have used the gun.

In a perfect world one would not be nervous in a bear incident and could pull the gun and the pepper spray, one in each hand, and fend off the bear, hopefully without needing the gun.

Then we have the real world where the odds of actually encountering a bear that is bent on killing and eating you are very slim.

I would prefer to be prepared than to have the last thought that I have in this life, just before the bear crushes my head in his powerful jaws with the stench of rotten bear breath mixed with my last breaths, be “Gee, I had a better chance of dying due to bee and wasp stings...huh...I sure wish I would have brought that revolver with me...”

Yep, sounds about right .I'd be to dumb to even think about the wind and end up blinding myself.....at the same time giving the bear a little zest for his next meal.

 

[CraigC]

I think that after 15 years as a police firearms instructor and over 50 years as a big game hunter that I am "comfortable" with guns.

I am also comfortable with what true professionals like forest rangers, wildlife biologists and game wardens use.

I am not comfortable with the the rants of typewriter jockeys whose job is to sell the latest gun their publication advertises..

The question is, why do they use what they use? Just because professionals use something, doesn't necessarily make it the best tool for the job. They usually use whatever their government agency has issued them. Even if they've killed several bears, if all they've ever used was whatever they were issued, how relevant is their experience? Or lack thereof? Same with Africa. You'll find no shortage of PH's who'd say that handguns are a joke against game like Cape buffalo but just because they're a "professional" does not make them an authority, if they have zero experience with handguns or handgun hunters.

 

[captain awesome]

I just have to say to who ever brought up bee and wasp "attacks" and included injury....you are literally comparing a bear attack to a bee sting. Yes I have been "attacked" by bees and wasps at least 5 times maybe more. They weren't significant enough in my mind to even think about longer than swatting the bee(s) and wasp(s), (an appropriate response when getting attacked by any thing...end its life, I would do the same to a bear with an appropriate "swatter") getting a stinger out and one time rubbing some ointment on.
Please. How many bear attacks are fixed with ointment and tweezers?

 

[cheygriz]

I just have to say to who ever brought up bee and wasp "attacks" and included injury....you are literally comparing a bear attack to a bee sting. Yes I have been "attacked" by bees and wasps at least 5 times maybe more. They weren't significant enough in my mind to even think about longer than swatting the bee(s) and wasp(s), (an appropriate response when getting attacked by any thing...end its life, I would do the same to a bear with an appropriate "swatter") getting a stinger out and one time rubbing some ointment on.
Please. How many bear attacks are fixed with ointment and tweezers?

Unless you actually believe what's written in the gun advertisement magazines, you realize that bear attacks happen one percent in the field, and ninety nine percent on the pages of magazines selling "bear" guns..

 

[captain awesome]

I dont read the magazines. And who cares honestly? Does it really bother you that much that people on a gun forum like talking about the best GUN for an encounter however rare???
I have never had a home invasion and likely never will but does that mean I shouldn't talk about the possibility or what I should do to prepare?

 

[LRDGCO]

It still being a slightly free country, at least in parts, folks should be able to freely exchange ideas, whether those ideas are appealing to all parties or not. And one should be able to prepare for dealing with a potential bear attack in whatever manner they deem suitable, inside the bounds of law. If "what gun for bear?" were a forbidden subject, it would vastly diminish internet discussion of firearms, would it not ?

Nevertheless, pointing out that bear attacks are extremely rare hardly seems an attack on the first or second amendments. It is simply a statement of fact. That said, if one wishes to be prepared for the very unlikely event of a bear attack, one should use that firearm (or non-lethal deterrent - if nothing else, it adds flavor) with which one feels most comfortable.

As a 12 year old alone in the woods of VT, I was unexpectedly confronted with a black bear that appeared huge and menacing. It was probably a typical VT 100 lbs bear that was, at most, mildly disappointed to see me. Fearing for my life, and shaking in my sneakers, I fired my Marlin .22 two times into the ground, and the bear, quite likely finding the noise unpleasant and the small human annoying, turned away and loped off. It was likely that he dined out on the tale for months. At the time of course, I felt like Daniel Boone. As I grew older, more like Daniel Buffoon. While, based on my experience of bear encounters (I have had two subsequent much less dramatic black bear interactions, one closer and one at greater distance, both involving no firearms discharge and a similar result), I could suggest that a .22 rifle is very effective bear gun. That would be nonsense, but it would be based in factual observation and my established "expertise".

If one is concerned about bear attacks, one should carry a firearm, or firearms, that one feels comfortable with and is able to use, and then one should be very judicious in trying not to use it. The rifles mentioned in the opening post seem like good choices for defense against bear. If a hand gun is also desired, either 44 Mag or 454 could be effective. That with which one is more comfortable and confident would be the better of the two.

 

[cheygriz]

Thank you, LRDGCO.

I guess I didn't realize that disagreeing with another member constituted an attack on the 1st and 2nd Amendments.

 

[captain awesome]

I just find it strange when someone asks an either/or question regarding which firearm for bear, inevitably someone always chimes in and tries to persuade/shame them into using bear spray...in a gun forum. And the bee thing...still trying to wrap my mind around how thats relevant. One could also make the argument that he is more likely to die in his truck on the way to his outdoor activity...but why bother?

 

[captain awesome]

Thank you, LRDGCO.

I guess I didn't realize that disagreeing with another member constituted an attack on the 1st and 2nd Amendments.

In most cases it doesnt but since you brought it up, telling someone that they shouldn't use a gun is exactly what the left wants to hear, so it kind of is.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Never fails how quickly these threads fall apart. So sad.

 

[Bushpilot]

1 I'd choose a double action 44 over a single action 454

2 I think the point about bees and wasps was simply to illustrate the unlikeliness of the event...

3 I'd prefer to have bear spray backed up by a 44 as it provides another option...

A heavy hardcast or Punch bullet will traverse any grizzly lengthways and leave a third eye on the back end.

4 CraigC you usually know what you're talking about so I won't say you're wrong but man I find it hard to believe that a hardcast 44 mag will go lengthwise through a large grizzly... I do recall you mentioning something similar before though... What were the details again?

 

[typhun]

Just look at the recent guide and hunter in Wyo, had the hunter had his gun available and not in his backpack, maybe they would have had a different outcome to the story. It truley is a what if situation and understand I was not there. However if Im put into that situation I would prefer to have different tools avail. No one tool is perfect.

Seems the guide had his own Glock and bear spray. I read that the bear spray was deployed and the bears they later found were partly identified by the residual bear spray on them.
https://buckrail.com/death-of-mark-uptain-by-grizzly-what-we-now-know/

 

[DannyLandrum]

You have a rifle, so adding a big handgun is way too much weight to carry... Take some pepper spray and know how to use it - blast the griz in the face - it will turn around. Get your rifle ready. If it's a POed mama with cubs, it make shake off the spray and charge again. Shoot rifle.

But obviously, among those the DA .44 mag is the much better choice.

 

[Pat Riot]

I will say that this thread has opened my eyes about something that I had not considered. These days when I am out and about in the woods (bear and cougar woods) I carry my Ruger Vaquero original model .45 Colt with some pretty stout loads. I figure that’s good medicine for anything I might encounter. But, I am assuming I might have two hands to work the hammer quickly. Also, I used to hunt so there was also a rifle at hand. I no longer hunt so therefore I am not usually carrying a rifle.
Maybe I need to rethink what I carry in the woods.

 

[Alaskan Ironworker]

I know a girl who was mauled after successfully deploying bear spray. Given she was still alive, she now has a grossly deformed arm missing alot of muscle. Ill stick to my guns, call me old fashioned if you like. Later, state troopers asked her how the bear spray worked, she told me she said “how does it look like it f$&@ing worked?. I also know two people who have stopped grizzly charges with handguns, one a 10mm glock, and one a .44 mag. The latter was on kodiak and was quite a large bear. I also dont like the thought that with bear spray, the “problem bear” will likely become someone elses problem soon, possibly someone without bear spray or a gun...also id rather not be blinded while miles and miles from civilization. If your gonna use bear spray, try spraying it sometime for practice and you’ll realize how easily it can get all over you as well as your target.

 

[Alaskan Ironworker]

I also meant to note that all the forest rangers, state biologists and state troopers i know in alaska are issued remington 870’s with 3” slugs

 

[CraigC]

I agree that it is extremely unlikely that a given individual will get charged by a bear. Just as it is unlikely that a given individual would have to draw their concealed carry weapon to defend themselves or loved ones. But both happen and we plan/train/discuss until we're blue in the face.

4 CraigC you usually know what you're talking about so I won't say you're wrong but man I find it hard to believe that a hardcast 44 mag will go lengthwise through a large grizzly... I do recall you mentioning something similar before though... What were the details again?

Well, if it traverses a 2000lb water buffalo, that is much larger and more heavily constructed than a bear......

 

[CraigC]

I also meant to note that all the forest rangers, state biologists and state troopers i know in alaska are issued remington 870’s with 3” slugs

Because they're cheap, serve multiple purposes and work "good enough".