Bear Defense Round....

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Black bears are not aggressive and shouldn't cause you so much concern.
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I agree with this observation, until, you know, they become aggressive.

I hope that when that happens I would have rememberED to pack some defensive KFC.

Holy mackeral, do you guys realize that I just came up with a keeper?! "DEFENSIVE KFC"!!!!!:):):)
 
Archangel, that is a great story! Did you add any spices?

...used his firearm in self defense twice, both times it was a grizzly, and he killed both with one shot from his colt trooper loaded winchester white box jhp.
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Guess the winchester white box and jhp excludes the 22LR Trooper. :D We are talking defense and not hunting. The 357 mag is appropriate and a good choice.
 
experience voices in

I've run into a lot of bears over the years but the only time I've had to aggressively defend myself I used pinecones. It took about a dozen to get the job done.

Love the ideas in this thread... I've carried a .357 for many years but have been considering restructuring my arsenal around the 44 mag.

I still don't understand the 454 cassul/500/460 guys though... Unless they never step off their atv's which is most likely the case..
 
You deffinately WANT FMJ and NO HPs. You want MAXIMUM pentration and I dont think a 357 HP will do it. My 358 Win would DROP a bear that big and do so with Authority!
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FMJ's aren't the answer. FMJ pistol bullets exist to be cheap for practice, not for deep penetration. They have a relatively thin jacket and are prone to deform and/or separate. For deep penetration in handguns, a hardcast SWC or LBT is the answer.
 
anyone consider an FN FiveSeven pistol? not saying it's the best choice but might compare favorably to a .357 w/ only six shots. Also it's lighter than most of the larger revolvers suggested.
 
skoro said:
Black bears are not aggressive and shouldn't cause you so much concern.
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True in most cases, but eventually in the long run, there is always a lottery winner.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/05/110511074807.htm

Definitely low numbers, but low is not 0. So in my book, I'm going to be ready.

Ach14, that's a great story man! It sounds like the Homer Simpson of black bears.

A friend of mine was taking his step son bear hunting one year. I recommended he soak the kids clothes in bacon grease before setting out. We both thought it was a funny idea...... the kid's mom didn't find it so funny. As we laughed we both heard "HEEEEEYYYYYYY!" shortly before receiving open hand slaps on both our shoulders.

I still don't understand the 454 casull/500/460 guys though...
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I'm telling you bluejeans, suspenders man........ suspenders. They make a world of difference when carrying a cannon. In black bear land though, I go with a 357.
 
You typically don't get that many shots on a charging bear. If you're able to unload your handgun, it was a double-action revolver with the bear on top of you.

The book someone referenced above is a good read. I have it on my bookshelf.

Oh, and since this post should be on topic, with the .357 you want heavy hardcast, not HPs, and aim for bone. .357 just doesn't have the power for confidence with HPs.
 
Recommend reading "Bear Attacks their causes and avoidance" by Stephen Herrero. He researched many years of bear attacks that the information had been documented on (over 400 ) black and grizzly. For instance , he states in B.C. during the 1990's, 29 people werte killed by bears, 18 by by grizzly, 11 by black bears. According to his research almost all black bear attacks where the bear stalks a person to eat them, occur in remote wilderness settings. OYE


I see someone else already mentioned this book. It's worth repeating. Good info. OYE
 
460Kodiak said:
True in most cases, but eventually in the long run, there is always a lottery winner.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/05/110511074807.htm

Definitely low numbers, but low is not 0. So in my book, I'm going to be ready.
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Yes, there are lottery winners but you are more likely to win the lottery than be killed by a bear. Per the article you linked 63 people have been killed by black bears in the last 110 years in the USA and Canada combined.

If you think that level of risk requires you to carry a handgun, that's fine. I'll use the limited room in my pack for other things.
 
Just to add my piece, I carry a Redhawk with 265 grain Cor-Bon JSP ammunition. Sometimes I carry a Ruger Deerfield carbine with 240 grain jsp. Sometimes I carry both. I also carry a Tanto point Ka-Bar since reading the book mentioned in this thread.
 
Yes, there are lottery winners but you are more likely to win the lottery than be killed by a bear. Per the article you linked 63 people have been killed by black bears in the last 110 years in the USA and Canada combined.
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This presents a statistical mirage. There are literally millions of people who play the lottery everyday. Millions. And what lottery are we talking about? The California SuperLotto? New York's Mega Millions? Compared to that, how many people venture into deep wilderness areas where the come upon black bears that are NOT used to human interaction? I'm not talking about a weekend driving the Range Rover through Yosemite, mind you. The difficulty I have is that I simply inquired as to opinions about the best projectile, given a certain scenario. And in return I (and others) receive replies that don't go to the subject, but to the premise of "why". "Why do you wish to do that"? As if the original inquiry is silly. Let me help you understand why I inquired:

http://www.adn.com/article/20141209/deadly-bear-attack-new-jersey-recalls-similar-incidents-alaska

Black bear, possible danger = I think I may wish to prepare.
 
Sorry but there is no statistical mirage. You are very, very unlikely to be attacked by a bear. Period.

If you wish to plan for that prospect your options in order of most effective to least effective are:

  1. Bear Spray
  2. Rifle
  3. Handgun
If you wish to use a handgun you should use hard cast bullets.
 
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Bears are regular visitors to my part of rural northern NM. They come to feed on the apples, choke cherries and rose hips growing near irrigation ditches. I have had two very close encounters with Black Bears on my property at close length. Both times they could have mauled me but did not. Perhaps because it was not there territory. Perhaps I was just lucky. I do not know the reason. Standing in front of a standing bear looking into his eyes is not an experience I would recommend. At the time I was not afraid, just surprised and interested. Apparently, the boar was too. We both stood still as a pair of statues. Eventually, he dropped to all fours and shot up a tree. I went into the house and had a shot of Bourbon. The other time, a BB moved into a tree next to the small orchard and remained for a week sleeping by day and feeding by night. He did a lot of damage to the trees but I did not mind. neighbors would come over and stand under the Cottonwood limb he was splayed upon and look at him a couple of feet over their heads. The bear would open one eye and look at us and then go back to sleep.

This is not to say BBs are benign. They are potentially dangerous. They do kill and maim people. There are variables which affect bear behavior and I do not pretend to know what they are although I have read up on it since these incidents. Being prepared to defend yourself makes sense. I post these experiences for perspective.
 
Not even consider a single action

ARCHARNGEL,

Unless you are some kind of Cowboy Action Competitor with 1000's of rounds fired under stress, I would not even consider a single action. If you want to carry a handgun for black bear, GUNTESTS did a test and liked the heavy bullets in .357 magnum like the 158 grain and 180 grain.

In .45 Long Colt, I would go with a S&W model 25 instead of a single action.
Single action guns are slow to bring into action. A shooter who is caught off guard will probably panic and may blow cocking the hammer (don't waste my time saying it cannot happen, it can and does). Also, if you have to shoot, you may need to fire several shots, so a smooth double action will improve your accuracy and speed.

Try these loads before trekking off. The recoil of a heavy .45 Long Colt load is something you will not forget.
I would wonder why you are not looking at a .41 or .44magnum for this as you can find heavy game loads at any gunshop and even many of the big box sporting goods stores. The gun itself will be just as heavy and bulky.


In all honesty, I would prefer a shotgun loaded with slugs. When I lived in western CANADA, the farmers used to buy pistol grip 12 gauge MOSSBERG pump shotguns and load them with slugs. I would say that is a pretty reasonable choice if you think a large bear is a problem.
In a rifle, I would be very happy with a .45-70 lever action.

I know of a black bear stalking and killing a runner about 12 years ago in QUEBEC, but it is the brown bears that you usually hear about.
The size difference means that brown bears usually fear nothing and can kill anything they come across. Add a mom guarding her cubs and it gets real bad.

Jim
 
JSH1: I agree with you. It's very unlikely that I'll get attacked by a bear. I get that. So it begs the question: why do anything in preparation for such an unlikely attack? Why even recommend bear spray? I'll tell you that my kid is not likely to be attacked by a black bear. But wouldn't it be a pickle if one did and I'm standing there with nothing but some Defensive KFC? Come on man, you've got to agree with this logic.
 
I agree Archangel14. It is very slight chance, that is why I don't carry a firearm or spray when I hike and backpack.

I recommended bear spray as a first choice for those that wish to carry something for protection because it is highly effective and can be used by a wide range of people with minimal to no training. That is if someone carries anything at all.
 
If reincarnation is real, I hope and pray I don't come back as a bear. Considering all the worrying about them, the possibility (probability?) of having to shoot one, all the people who feel the need to be gunning for one and all the discussion about which cartridge will kill one the fastest it's a miracle they're not extinct.
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Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner! :D
 
Archangel14 said:
JSH1: I agree with you. It's very unlikely that I'll get attacked by a bear. I get that. So it begs the question: why do anything in preparation for such an unlikely attack? Why even recommend bear spray? I'll tell you that my kid is not likely to be attacked by a black bear. But wouldn't it be a pickle if one did and I'm standing there with nothing but some Defensive KFC? Come on man, you've got to agree with this logic.
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Cause it's fun to visualize how one is going to prepare. Don't matter what the odds are of it happening, still fun to discuss it.

I pack a .44 any time I visit my parents land to check game cameras (all I'm seeing is hogs now, same three well fed one's) and my brother-in-laws 150+ acres and there are very very few bears in East Texas.

Why pack the hogleg? Just in case the off chance I see a critter worth shooting.

No real chance of seeing seeing a bear, but still that .44 is a comforting piece of iron.

Deaf
 
I agree Archangel14. It is very slight chance, that is why I don't carry a firearm or spray when I hike and backpack.
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JSH1, I value your opinion. I do. And I'm really not trying to pound this issue. But it's clear that we both have done a bit of backwoods hiking, both have come across our share of bears, and we're evidently still here, typing away. With that said, I've had EXTREMELY close, personal, touchy-touchy contact with a wild bear. I was unarmed. It could have killed me if it wanted to. I literally has no means of protecting myself if the bear made the choice to harm me. I was wholly at the mercy of the bear. Period, emphasis added. Still, I have wandered back into the same woodlands armed with nothing but a knife and a stick. Not even a bucket of Defensive KFC. Now, my OP concerned MY SON. My 40 pound, 7 year old son. Really, I beg, tell me how I go back into the same lands with just spray? I'm sure it would be fine 99% of the time, but I just don't know how I'd live with myself if that 1% were to happen to him and I came prepared with some spray. I'm sure we can all understand that.

McGunner, I totally value your opinion (as I do with so many from the very excellent forum, JSH1 included). It looks like my .357 with hard cast is the choice. Apparently will work if needed, and more importantly, I am well practiced with it.

Thank you all for the opinions and entertainment!:)
 
Your 40 lb 7 year old son could use bear spray to effectively defend himself (and you). The same can't be said for a .357 magnum.

Take a look at the results from two studies done by Tom Smith looking at bear attacks in Alaska. The study involving pepper spray was done in 2008, the one with firearms in 2012. Spoiler: Pepper spray has a lower percentage of injuries and deaths.
 
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