Beater/Truck rifle?

[hueyville]

35 Whelen, From his screen name I assume he is from somewhere in Gods Country. Asked about a fair priced rifle not to exceed 450.00. The Hog Hunter 308 he asked about can be had for about that without a scope. It comes with iron sites so I think he may be looking to confirm what he has in mind though I am guessing. That rifle is a good choice in its price range as the platform for a scout rifle, glass can be added later once the tithe has been paid and the kids are fed. His interests in order "God, family, guns" Doesn't sound like the charging through the woods in his surplus camo, Rambo knife in his teeth and fixed bayonet type. Thus my thoughts that the SKS was others just placing their own ideals on someone else's situation. Didn't see any hands up to make him feel positive toward what he was asking about. I see the logic as a compact 308 turn bolt is the handiest invention since sliced bread.

 

[Browning]

Looks like some ruffled feathers. Never said an SKS would never kill anything, I have heard tale of desperate folk defending themselves successfully from a Grizzly with a knife.

Just enough stopping power to kill an enemy combatent if you happen to hit him center of mass.

I see.

So first it was just enough stopping power to kill an enemy combatant and now it's comparable to someone fighting a Grizzly with a knife.

Gotta love these analogies.

You didn't ruffle any feathers, just correcting you. :Shrug

 

[hueyville]

Correcting me from what? knowing my ballistics tables?

 

[hueyville]

The 7.62×39mm round is a rifle cartridge of Soviet origin that was designed during World War II. It was first used in the RPD machine gun. Due to the worldwide proliferation of the SKS-45 and AK-47 pattern rifles, the cartridge is utilized by both militaries and civilians alike. 7.62×39mm ammunition is purportedly tested to function well in temperatures ranging from −50 °C (−58 °F) to 50 °C (122 °F) cementing its usefulness in extremely cold polar or hot desert conditions.

The 7.62×39mm cartridge was likely influenced by a variety of foreign developments, especially the pre-war German GeCo, 7.75×39mm experimental round,[4] and its developments in the German late-war Intermediate cartridge trials in calibers 7.9mm and 7.62mm. The German adopted 7.92×33mm Kurz by Polte did not influence development.

Shortly after the war, the world's most recognized military pattern rifle was designed for this cartridge: the AK-47. The cartridge remained the Soviet standard until the 1970s, and is still one of the most common intermediate rifle cartridges used around the world. It was replaced in Russian service by the 5.45×39mm cartridge, which is used by the current issue AK-74 and variants.

The 7.62×39mm cartridge produces significant wounding if the bullet tumbles in tissue,[5] but produces relatively minor wounds in cases where the bullet exits before beginning to yaw or does not yaw.[6][7] In the absence of yaw, the M43 load can pencil through lung tissue with relatively little injury

Contrary to popular belief, the SKS is not an assault rifle, because the basic design lacks both a selective fire capability and a detachable magazine.[2] The SKS's ten-round box magazine is fed from a stripper clip and rounds stored in the magazine can be removed by depressing a magazine catch located forward of the trigger guard (thus opening the "floor" of the magazine and allowing the rounds to fall out).[2] In typical military use the stripper clips are disposable. If necessary they can be reloaded multiple times and reused.

however, it was noted that most firefights took place at maximum ranges of between 100 meters (110 yd) and 300 meters (330 yd). Only a highly-trained specialist, such as a sniper, could employ the full-power rifle cartridge to its true potential. Both the Soviet Union and Germany realized this and designed new weapons for smaller, intermediate-power cartridges. The US fielded an intermediate round in the .30 US, now known as the .30 Carbine, and M1 carbines were fielded in large numbers but not as a replacement for the 30-06 round in general use.
In 1949, the SKS was officially adopted into the Soviet Army, manufactured at the Tula Armory from 1949 until 1955 and the Izhevsk Mechanical Plant in 1953 and 1954. Although the quality of Soviet carbines manufactured at these state-run arsenals was quite high, its design was already obsolete compared to the Kalashnikov which was selective-fire, lighter, had three times the magazine capacity, and had the potential to be less labor-intensive to manufacture. Gradually over the next few years, AK-47 production increased until the extant SKS carbines in service were relegated primarily to non-infantry and to second-line troops.

Hate having to quote Wikipedia but even they understand the terminal ballistics of the cartridge and the fact that the SKS was obsolete before it was even issued. The concept that everyone was adapting was killing an enemy took one man off the battlefield. Wounding him took two to carry him, staff to care for him, and cost more money and materials than kicking a body in a hole.

 

[Browning]

Thank you Wikipedia.

My point is that ballistics tables (that you presumably obtained from Wikipedia as well) don't tell the whole story. If you'd ever actually shot anything with an SKS or some other 7.62x39 you wouldn't be claiming that it's just barely able to take down an enemy combatant if shot center of mass or comparing it to fighting a Grizzly with a knife.

So I'm just doing my best to make sure that folks down buy into this crap by letting it stand unchallenged.

Clear enough?

 

[hueyville]

I can argue your side sir if need be. Where one clarification needs to be made is the difference between Mil-spec and aftermarket ammo. What I see as a problem, lies with a large percentage of the people seen with these guns even in the field using military surplus ammo and think it is actually better because its "military quality". With a good commercial hunting bullet, proper powder the cartridge is capable of taking small to medium game within its inherent design capabilities and terminal ballistics. This is one of the kindest review I have found on the capabilities of this cartridge.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/bolt_action_7-62x39_rifles.htm

Quote:

I took one whitetail doe with the CZ 527 at eighty yards and a young feral hog at fifty with 122-grain hollow point bullets. Both took less than three steps before going down from well placed lung shots. I have shot a number of raccoons, badgers, skunks and several coyotes with the BARS-4-1, all at less than a hundred yards, and all of them went down on the spot. I did send one coyote spinning this winter with a pulled shot and it took a second round to anchor him. Hide damage is less than with a .243 or .30-30, since the 7.62x39 round is less powerful than those calibers. I can see why the 7.62X39 is popular for hunting the smaller species of game in Europe. Where legal, these would make excellent turkey rifles.

No, they will not do anything that can’t be done with a lever action .30-30 and they do not have the range of a .243, but they are extremely inexpensive to shoot and both of my examples are among the most accurate rifles I have tested. I think they are nearly perfect for woods hunting and I often carry the BARS-4-1 in the rolling sand hills of south central Kansas. It is a great sand hill predator calling rifle, especially when I call at the far end of the area and have to pack-in nearly two miles. I also normally carry the BARS 4-1 during late summer deer scouting ventures just before muzzleloader season. I normally carry the rifle in my camper during summer outings.

For the recoil sensitive hunter, or the backpacker who wants an inexpensive pack rifle with much more power than a rimfire, the bolt action 7.26X39 is a good choice. I particularly like my BARS-4-1 in this caliber because it is an economical fit between my rimfire rifles and my lever action .30-30’s. While the lever action .30-30 is a superior deer choice, the bolt action 7.62X39 is my preference for close range predators.

Not only have I shot more than a fair share of SKS, AK's and variants, I have accessorized, re-bedded, re-crowned, reloaded and handloaded for these guns and this caliber. I actually own a chamber reamer and tried r-cutting chambers in selected factory barrels in an effort to see if I could build an affordable solution for select projects. Within its limitations, which should be recognized, it is a cartridge to be reckoned with. I really like it for shooting wild dogs and feral pigs.

That being said the OP was:

I've posted a couple of times before about this but I'm thinking about a Savage Hog Hunter in .308 for a beater. Do you have any other suggestions for a beater with a price tag of no more than $450? Thank you for your time!

My personal definition of a truck rifle can't be fulfilled by an SKS or any variant built on the 7.62x39 caliber as there is not adequate physical room inside the case for enough powder to obtain proper velocity to propel a .30 caliber bullet to its minimum acceptable potential. Thus the case design is not conducive to utilize the full potential of modern 30 caliber bullets.

The pictures I see as "proof" of this calibers capabilities posted here show me some people are using it to the far edge of its actual capabilities and thus feel they are proving the point some folks are over rating it rather than realizing its true capability. Same with the 30-30. Yes, more deer have probably been killed with a 30-30 than any other caliber but I bet it has wounded the most also. Both cartridges are cool in their own realms but the 308 is better.

Just like riding an original Harley Davidson Panhead. It is cool and actually costs more money now days than most brand new Harley 96" Twincams with disk brakes, cruise control and electronic fuel injection. Do I ride the old one or the new? Actually it is both. But I know that if I set off to do a coast to coast ride the Panhead is going to beat me up bad and probably need some work along the way. A new bagger is going to be plush and you don't even have to take a tool kit on the trip. I choose the right bike for each ride. Of course I have friends that would ride thier Pans on the same trip and I think they are crazy. Tell them to their face and they just grin and like it.

Folks need to do the same with a rifle and I don't think an SKS is appropriate for medium game except in the same situation where a 30-30 is. Less than 75 yard clear shots. Do I own and SKS, AK or variants? Yes to all. Will I kill animals with them still? Sure. Am I going to take one deer hunting? Nope. Am I going to carry a 308 deer hunting? Maybe... Usually I hunt deer with a .44 mag pistol, .454 Casull pistol, 25-06, 7mm Mag, 30-06 or .300 mag. All depends on the terrain and I pass up on any shot that I feel is on the edge of mine or my guns capability.

 

[Browning]

Well you're more than welcome to your opinion.

 

[mljdeckard]

And it depends on the purpose for which you want to keep it in the truck. Some guys like lever guns, I never did much. All of my bolt rifles have kind of become projects that I just don't want to leave behind the seat. (In some cases, projects because my father DID leave them rattling behind the seat.)

If you want to keep it in the truck just to have a rifle for fun? Sure, an SKS works.

If you want something that can dispatch most animals, it works.

If you want something you can leave in your truck for weeks or months at a time and not worry about it working, it works.

If you want something that shoots cheap ammo, it works.

If you want something that can be customized to suit you without costing too much, it works.

And don't discount legitimate defensive use. All of the pot grows in my state have persuaded me to keep the SKS over my handlebars in addition to the sidearm. If a bad guy sees I have a rifle, it may well change whether or from which distance they could attack me. I talked to a local DEA guy and I told him I think that the guys who run these grows probably set them up, leave them, and pay a sheep herder of similar ethnic persuasion $50 a week to go check the water. He told me this isn't what happens. There is too much dollar value involved. They sit on it, and have rotating guards. This means that the possibility of stumbling upon something I shouldn't see is very real. If I had to fight with it, it works.

Tech sights and a thinner front post seriously improved accuracy.

Truth be told, I might prefer an M-1 carbine, but the one I have is an heirloom, and I don't see myself getting around to getting another one.

Another factor is that it's disposable. If I encountered a LEO who is either ignorant or indifferent to the law, and decided he had to seize it until one of us learned whether or not I was really allowed to have it in my truck, it wouldn't make me cry, and it wouldn't be difficult at all to replace it.

 

[lloveless]

I've seen mention of Ruger's mini series. I had a mini-30. That sucker was heavy for a carbine, and had as much or more recoil than my Rem 788 in .308. Needless to say it went away. I still have the 788, and now a Rossi 92 in .44 mag.
ll

 

[hueyville]

MLJ, your reasoning is quite sound to me. Using the appropriate hammer for the task. I would assume in your case its a good chance your SKS is a non yellow sheet gun in the event it has to be thrown off a bridge. If I had your issue I would definitely think if the one pulled for the truck was or not. I have SKS rifles for similar situations.

Funny how someone can propose his stated needs for a day to day truck gun can't be satisfied with an SKS. No, it is a fact based on math plus applied physics combined with the rifles inherent accuracy capabilities and my possible missions. Opinions are based on feelings which is what gets presidents elected who want to take away guns from private citizens. Now for others needs the science behind the ballistics combined with rifles accuracy capabilities may give a different answer due to different values in their original formula.

That said, at times an SKS throw down occasionally augments the scout rifle under the back seat. And for me, in most cases beater is just a term to reflect a ding here and there is not going to freak me out. I have a custom 3 rifle lock under back seat that keeps rifle(s) secure but readily accessible. The scout rifle lives in the lock almost 98% of the time. Some times it is replaced or augmented with a shotgun. The shotgun may be a riot version or a Winchester 101 Expert over & under.

Other times it may be an AR-15. Then the AR may be a basic iron sight meter stick, collapsing compact and others it might be a flat top H-BAR. Could have a M1a basic or super match. But once again, the little scout rifle stays in one of the slots 99% of the time. Other times I may just have my scout as the only long gun but put an N.F.A. Ingram M11 in .380 with a supressor so I have the ability to drive with one hand, shoot with the other, maneuver the gun in the confines of the vehicle and not deafen myself while under the stress of fighting and driving. Those days a very freaking seldom though.

One of my many 1911 pattern .45 acp's will always be on my person. That varies from an ultra compact in a pocket holster, commander size in a in-the-pants rig, full size government model in a shoulder rig or if I want the ultimate in intimidation factor for handguns I have a Galco shoulder rig which carries two matching full size stainless Randal .45's only difference between the two is that one is a true left hand model with ejection port throwing brass out the left side of slide and right hander pitching brass to stage right. It's quite impressive the reaction when suddenly both hands fill with full size 1911's and brass flying in two directions.

Usually a cheap throw down that is totally clean and in a zip lock baggy is stuffed somewhere handy. Same principal as the SKS with no yellow sheet or records attaching it to ever even being in the southeast. So I always have at least my carry gun and my scout rifle. Usually some form of backup is lurking in the mix. Other times I am loaded for everything from chipmunks to elephants. There is a zoo in ATL & you never know what may escape. Riding around hickville is different than when working in the projects of ATL. Working in south GA during deer season near a peanut farm with 500 acre plots o nuts might require my custom barreled .270 Weatherby Mag that has had all of the traditional factory "free bore" removed from the chamber so I can seat the bullet 1/1,000th off the lands.

If I.am on my annual winter trip to New Hampshire I only carry one.pistol for me and one for the wife. In the camper shell is a well bolted down vault to put the unloaded pistols in while we drive through MA. Just can't imagine the issues getting pinched by the man in Boston with my usual configuration. I select best tool for anticipates situations and when in doubt cover the gaps with any possible alternative firearms.

 

[RPRNY]

Hueyville,

Two points if I may. I think you've put yourself in a tougher spot than you may have meant to on the 30-30 and 7.62x39. "Only suitable for 75 yds with a clear shot " is just silly.

Which species exactly will not be rapidly incapacitated by a heart / lung shot with 150 grain soft point arriving at 1650 fps? There are plenty of. 308 " bullets whose optimal terminal ballistics fall in that range and that's a 30-30 at 200 yards.

As to the ineffectiveness of the 7.62x39, I am citing two experts who disagree with you. The first is my brother -in - law who was a Marine lieutenant who did two combat tours in Vietnam that included, among other things, the liberation of Hue following the Tet Offensives where he insists, contrary to your view, that they were quite effectively engaged by the 7.62x39 beyond 75 yards. He cites the death of several riflemen in his platoon as evidence of this fact. The second is my other brother - in - law who was a private in the Army's air cavalry. He only completed part of one combat tour returning to the US to have his leg amputated above the knee. It was amputated because his knee was shattered by - you guessed it : a 7.62x39 round from an AK47 and to avoid bleeding out, the tourniquet was overly tight for too long causing irreparable damage. In fairness to your contention, he says he has no idea how far away from the shooter he was when he was hit. He does however insist that the 7.62x39 round is a killer at far more than your "75 yards ". I'm going to go with their experience over your ballistics tables. I'm sure you won't mind.

As far as I have read, nobody is suggesting that either the 30-30 or the 7.62x39 deliver anything like the effective range of the. 308 nor that the rifles delivering them offer superior accuracy to a decent bolt gun. I think the issue (and where you may have manoevered yourself into this tricky spot) is that most people don't envisage a scenario where they are driving along in their truck and suddenly stop to line up for a 400 yard shot at an elk or Dall sheep. And in most parts of the country, taking skyline shots at what might be a passing Indian on the horizon just isn't the done thing anymore.

So, I will not take issue with your opinion that a .308 bolt gun is the perfect truck gun. But I urge you to recant this foolish talk of the 30-30 lever gun being good for "75 yards with a clear shot " only and lacking the ballistics to perform effectively out to 200 yards. I don't personally like a scope on a lever gun and without one, I wouldn't shoot at deer at more than 150 yards because that's my self imposed limit for ability to make an ethical shot with open sights. I would be less ethical with coyotes...

 

[Browning]

Hueyville,

Two points if I may. I think you've put yourself in a tougher spot than you may have meant to on the 30-30 and 7.62x39. "Only suitable for 75 yds with a clear shot " is just silly.
-

So, I will not take issue with your opinion that a .308 bolt gun is the perfect truck gun. But I urge you to recant this foolish talk of the 30-30 lever gun being good for "75 yards with a clear shot " only and lacking the ballistics to perform effectively out to 200 yards. I don't personally like a scope on a lever gun and without one, I wouldn't shoot at deer at more than 150 yards because that's my self imposed limit for ability to make an ethical shot with open sights. I would be less ethical with coyotes...

Pretty much the only thing I had issue with.

(Well, besides the wall of text and cut and pasting of huge sections of Wikipedia links).

 

[hueyville]

RPRNY, for what it was designed it is decent. I stated earlier in the thread I didn't want anyone shooting at me at any distance with one. A trained and battle hardened NVA is a different animal. They were used to shooting. Also in Hue the numbers of Charlie were bound to be sending enough fire that lots of rounds hit. As also posted earlier, if the bullet has any yaw and tumbled in a man target it tears him all to heck. Read all posted info before busting my chops over one line from one post. That is like picking the one verse out of the Bible to spin support for your opinion. I posted the numbers. When I say 75 yard clean shots I am basing that on the average marksmanship I see at the public range these days combined with the fact the energy level is down to 1,100 ft/lbs at that distance. Most of the guys showing up all camoed up with their SKS have to pull their targets back to the 50 yard range. I am sure their are guys here that suck that bad and some that will shoot 6" groups at 150 to 175 yards. Those guys probably got their skills with something else and will use something else when appropriate. If just one 1st time gun owner reads this thread and realizes his new Chinese SKS is not a military death ray it will be worth pointing out its nuances. I was just initially stunned when nobody seemed to support the OP on his original ask and the choir kept singing the Combloc song like they had magic powers.

 

[BushyGuy]

7.62x39mm M67 ammo does yaw better then the M43 ammo,

the M67 ammo was one of the deadliest ak47 ammo ever devised.

 

[hueyville]

Browning, the cut and past put the reverent info in easy to follow order and I only posted relevent sections. I have tried hard not to say the SKS sucks, just that it has serious limitations especially in the hands of non experienced shooters. What I have seen at the public range with all the new 1st time gun owners using the spray and pray technique of marksmanship. I have respect for its proper use as well as the 30-30 but some of what I am reading in Combloc threads on this BBS really reads that some folks really don't understand what an SKS is and what its not. Many do. A little kicking the can full of Ballistics info back and forth is bound to give someone info they didn't know. What happens to a 7.62x39 round from 150 to 250 yards is surprising to some when presented. I have seen guys show at the.range, walk their targets out to the 100 yard line and start trying to site them in standing. We all started somewhere. I see so many Combloc threads here with posts that make it seem like an SKS with an aftermarket stock and sights it becomes a sniper rifle. I am happy to see all these new gun owners and people excited about their rifles but let's paint the truth about actual capabilities. I can ring 10" steel plateau at 150 yards with a .45 but if I shot a deer it would be another wounded animal. No, not comparing my 45 to an SKS. Last three years every deer I shot was already wounded. I now mostly hunt deer just to put wounded animals out of their misery. WMA hunts can be plain sickening at all the deer limping around the woods. Sure some those were shot with belted magnums too.

 

[Ignition Override]

Some of you guys might have very valid points about the SKS. Maybe they are not the best candidate.
However, on their Youtube Channel "Brandon401401" in a free stance hits a gong from over 200 yards with his generic AK (modified trigger).

If a skilled shooter (not just "hickok 45" types) can do this with original AK sights, there might be good possibilities for a skilled SKS shooter
with a Tech Sight, much better sight distance etc.
And many SKS right now are listed on GB for not much more than they cost in early 2008. Very nice value, especially during a 'sheep stampede'.

 

[cal30_sniper]

Other times I may just have my scout as the only long gun but put an N.F.A. Ingram M11 in .380 with a supressor so I have the ability to drive with one hand, shoot with the other, maneuver the gun in the confines of the vehicle and not deafen myself while under the stress of fighting and driving. Those days a very freaking seldom though.

I have a Galco shoulder rig which carries two matching full size stainless Randal .45's only difference between the two is that one is a true left hand model with ejection port throwing brass out the left side of slide and right hander pitching brass to stage right. It's quite impressive the reaction when suddenly both hands fill with full size 1911's and brass flying in two directions.

Usually a cheap throw down that is totally clean and in a zip lock baggy is stuffed somewhere handy.

I'm trying to decide whether your daily routine in your truck involves running point man for a Mexican drug cartel, or playing the part of a one man SEAL Team somewhere on the Afghan-Pakistani border...

When I say 75 yard clean shots I am basing that on the average marksmanship I see at the public range these days combined with the fact the energy level is down to 1,100 ft/lbs at that distance. Most of the guys showing up all camoed up with their SKS have to pull their targets back to the 50 yard range.

Here is your problem. The fact that you saw a bunch of hillbillies banging away at the local gun range doesn't have to do anything with the capabilities of the SKS. Also, your Wikipedia infused ballistics are off. A 123gr bullet launched at 2350fps (middle of the road for a 7.62x39 load) will still be going 2100fps at 100 yds, and retain 1200 ft/lbs of energy. It's no .308, but then again, you're the only person here who has tried to compare it to one. To each his own, but you must keep in mind that the OP never requested that this rifle be able to drill nails at 200 yds or take down a bull elk. It's a truck gun, not a dedicated big game rifle.

I quote you from your first post here: "A rifle should be able to reliably put rounds on target and kill things to at least 200 yards."

An SKS will easily do that in the hands of a decently skilled rifleman. I'm sorry, but if you can't shoot things at 200 yards with an SKS, you probably aren't going to be able to shoot things with a .308 bolt at 200 yards either. Don't blame poor marksmanship on a weapon type. An inability to shoot rests squarely on the shoulders of the individual shooter.

The OP asked for reliable truck guns. Where I grew up in West Texas, the .30-30 reigns king as the truck gun of all time. It's still a very common thing to see them riding around in the back windows of rancher's trucks. These "truck guns" serve on a day to day basis, for everything from opportunity killings of coyotes, bobcats and rattlesnakes, to putting down a deer wounded by a vehicle, to standing their ground against the cartels and others which are constantly moving through their land. The people who ACTUALLY USE their truck rifles (not just sit around and fantasize about all the tacticool things they could do, or how many pistols they can use at once), more often than not choose a lever-action .30-30.

The SKS is nothing more than a modernized version of a lever action .30-30, except even more rugged than the original. There is almost no difference in power between the two, both use easy to find and cheap ammunition, and both have been proven over and over again in this very application. The OP asked, and those of us with experience answered.

 

[Deer_Freak]

I used to think a SKS was adequate for hunting deer. I hunted two seasons with an SKS. I have never had to get a dog to retrieve so many deer in my life. Many of the deer I had shot right through both shoulder blades and the deer still ran 200 yards into impenetrable cover. If I shoot a deer through both shoulder blades with a 30/ 06 or a shotgun slug. The deer is down right there, it's front legs are immobile. I am no expert or anything like that but I am a prolific hunter. Quite often I have limited out in NC (6 deer) and went to MS to hunt the second season there (one deer a day limit). So you are not getting this from someone that shoots one or two deer a year. I have made shots that the deer should have been right there to many times only for the deer to run off. I don't care who your experts are or what ballistic chart you use. The SKS is not an adequate weapon for deer hunting in my book.

 

[hueyville]

Cal30sniper, You are the one using the screen name sniper... Out of curiosity, when did you acquire your Bravo 4 additional skill identifier? Riding an SKS around in the truck every day is o.k. but putting an M11 in the truck two or three times in a lifetime is ludicrous? My perceived need once was the silent alarm going off at my business, knowing I usually get there before the S.O. does and seeing burglars on my security cameras both inside and unidentified panel van in my parking lot via my smart phone I decided to grab something specific on way out of the house. Perpetrators had to cut a high security grade chain and lock to get in parking lot. It was not unreasonable to think minute I turned into the gate things might turn bad. Thus I put on a level 3A vest and grabbed my M11 out of the small upstairs vault at home and defensive shotgun from beside bed. That time a deputy did beat me to my business and actually let the van drive right by him as he was coming up the road all code 3. I arrived we checked the building and resecured. Before I got home motion sensor went off and had to then around. Apparently one of the thieves took refuge in the attic through a ceiling tile when his buddies fled. Within seconds of the motion detector going off, so did front door sensor because he was done thieving and switched to fleeing. That time I did beat the law but luckily had no encounter. If crap had hit the fan either while approaching in truck or once in building, the M11 is a handy little gun. Let's say second trip had gone poorly, a throw down may have made all easier when reports were done.

My business has an attempted burglary at least once every couple of years. Over 27 years I have been first on scene more often than not. My choice is a 12 gauge and something small, fast and quiet. For some reason when its common knowledge of a place with lots of high dollar equipment and a motorcycle collection stored on premises, occasionally someone gets greedy. Also some folks assume that there is cash on business premises also. Building is located near a lot of low budget housing thus susceptible to everything from simple scrap metal thieves to more greedy and capable perps. It sucks that a man has to get used to alarms and monitor his outdoor cameras whenever away from work. No drug cartels, not a mafia hit man nor military contractor (any more).

So because 30-30's are popular that makes them a great choice. Lady GaGa is popular but I am not going to listen to her music. As to experience, do you average more than 2,000 rounds per month for over 30 years? I do. I shoot almost every day and shoot a minimum of 200 rounds per week of centerfire ammo plus lots o rimfire. I shoot everything from .17 to .50 bmg. I bought a 60" toolroom lathe just for tweaking my rifles myself. Spew, spew and more spew. But since you are the self proclaimed expert I will defer to your proclamation of actually using a gun as qualifying oneself as an expert. I do claim to be knowlegable about guns but an "expert"? Nope, but I have met a few over the years. But since some of them only hold 1,000 yard f class world records they may not be actually be experts as a couple of them don't own or care to own Combloc weapons.

 

[cal30_sniper]

I'm not going to cloud up the forum with personal attacks or wild stories. I do find it interesting that you typed quite a long response without addressing any of the additional information anyone has presented relevant to the subject.

If you'll look back, I too suggested a bolt action rifle, as well as the SKS. I personally feel like either is a great choice. I also own several Savages, and find them to be very good rifles, but I also think it would be overpriced and possibly too fragile for the application he has in mind. A plastic trigger guard and pot metal internals might not work out so well rattling around under the seat of a pickup truck. Neither would plastic sights which are common on a lot of Savage rifles, and standard on the hog hunter. Lets use some common sense here. A truck rifle is not a dedicated long-range hunting rifle. If you want a dedicated hunting rifle, then by all means, go out and buy one! If you want a leave it in the truck and forget about it, only pull it out if you need to, and be sure it will work when you do rifle, grab something like an SKS or a cut down old Mauser or Mosin. They're designed to live a hard life and perform just fine, the Savage isn't. Who cares if they were built by Communists, Socialists, or Capitalists? It doesn't in the least bit affect how they perform.

Also, I'm not sure where this throw away over a bridge record-less plastic bag sealed gun idea came from. Somebody suggested that another benefit of the SKS was if you did get stopped by the wrong deputy sheriff, and he did seize it for some crazy reason, it wouldn't be too terrible of a loss if you didn't get it back. Hueyville started talking about guns that couldn't be traced and didn't have any fingerprints getting thrown into the lake. If you're worrying about that kind of stuff, your means are probably far less than legal, and way outside the scope of the daily use of a truck gun.

Argue and shoot and spout all you want. Everybody has an opinion, I'm telling you what's a popular choice in a part of the world where people still use and depend on their truck guns everyday. The horse has mostly been replaced by the truck and ATV, but most of them wear a scabbard somewhere for all the same reasons as old.

 

[cal30_sniper]

Also, just for honesty and clarity's sake for everyone, I am not and never claimed to be a sniper. If we're going to start picking apart people's screen-names, we're in a whole world of trouble. My father was a Scout Sniper in the Marine Corps, and trained me on my first rifle, a bolt action Savage in .308. When I started registering on firearms forums as a teenager, it seemed like neat and fitting handle. I use it still, both because I enjoy the memory of where it came from, and because it makes remembering names and passwords a lot easier. I feel the need to clarify that, because I truly don't want to be seen as a fraud. Hopefully no-one here has been offended as such.

 

[Ky Larry]

Back to the OP:

If you have good eyesight,the SKS is hard to beat . If you need a scope, you might want to look at HandiRifle single shot or a Marlin X7/Savage Axis/Ruger American bolt. You can get these in most common calibers like .223, .22-250, .243, .270, .308, .30-06, etc. Before the current sillines, Buds had the Marlin X7 with 3-9 scope for around $325.00 nib.

 

[mljdeckard]

Maybe you're not a real sniper, but I'm a real blade runner.

 

[USMC8541]

I would not put a scoped rifle to live in a truck. My choice is an old bolt action 22, Value no more than 100 dollars

 

[hueyville]

Folks my wife read the thread and told me to slow my roll. I have a tendency to just say what I feel at any moment. We have all picked single lines out of the others posts and used them like tire irons in a back ally. I am sure over a cup o Joe and trip to the range we would have a blast together.

30calsniper, I read your posts just a few minutes ago in the scout rifle thread. Your posts next door seem much more in line with my thoughts on the subject. Think we have both been playing a little devils advocate with each other. That said, truce from my end. We all have valid points and in a what rifle is best thread there can never be a clearly defined best. We all choose our own multipurpose gun and either stick with it or change. And in same vein there can never be a winner in a internet debate over apples vs oranges. Bet money your a decent guy who like me doesn't mind tightening someone's screws on occasion.

Bottom line is I own quite a few SKS rifles myself. Although the number is dwindling quickly while the selling is good. Used money from them to get my new .22 hornet and my new Belgian FN and lots of other goodies. I counted the stack and NIB still in cosmoline there are 18 left. Hope to sell at least six more in near future. I will always keep a few as they are fun and fair shooting rifles out to 200 yards. Sometimes I see these microtrends with what seems incorrect reasoning behind them and get my panties in a wad. Some of what I base off of is also observed phenomenon at local ranges. If for budget reasons its what someone has to choose, its better than their chipmunk .22 from being a kid.

I work all over the Southeast. A lot in rural west Virginia installing cell tower equipment. I carry an AR due to the number of "grows" I encounter. Often I am alone driving up a dirt hill to a tower site. I work Baton Rouge, Tampa, Nashville, western KY, Charlotte NC, Atlanta and others. Each has its issues and a tuck gun or two may change when loading the truck. But my little 308 always gets to go. Because some people consider me reliable I get called in the middle of the night more than most if a friend or employee is in a jam. Due to being financially blessed I have quite the options when I walk out the door. And I do best can to choose my gun as carefully as my tool kit.

I am selling about 1or2 of these slum blusters per week. When I get down to ten will stop.selling for moment. If price drops bad at sometime, will buy some back. Just sold two to a fellow that sold me his. He bought during last panic, it ended, price went back down and he sold. I can't wrap my mind around this thought pattern. I turn 50 next month, my wife and I don't have kids so what the crappy is going to happen to all my nice stuff if probate judge notices it on list? Soon after turning 40 told wife going to reduce collection to 100 guns not counting.trade bait by 50. A lot of that is trade three lesser desirable guns for.one nicer. Told here will cut to 80 by age 60 including bait guns. Then down to 50 by age 70. After that, will just.name who each one left goes to in my will. This is a goofy problem to.have, eh? So right hand of fellowship is extended.