zedheadmc
Member
I have read and been told that stainless steel barrels and cold weather is do not get along to well. If this is true then why not and how cold would to cold be for a stainless rifle??
Been told stainless steel barrels not so good in the cold, why not?
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manitou210
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Stainless in cold
Just because its you read it, is sometimes no diffrent than some one talking
Just because its you read it, is sometimes no diffrent than some one talking
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Haven't had any problems with the stainless steel in my four S&W M629 .44 Mag pistols while deer hunting with them during the last 8-10 years. Don't know what the supposed problem is. I have full confidence in my SS pistols, barrels and all.
Good shooting and be safe.
LB
Good shooting and be safe.
LB
30-06 lover
Member
I used to have a stainless that I hunted in CO winters with. Accuracy was outstanding and the stainless was great in the snow and wet. Very resistant to the cold and wet IMO. I think you have been given some false info.
-Mike
-Mike
hoghunting
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Zed,
There is an Alaskan hunting and shooting forum that I have checked for info on some guided hunts and it seems the hunters in Alaska use mostly stainless steel and synthetic stocks. So much for the stainless rumor and so to that synthetic stocks don't hold up to cold weather without breaking.
There is an Alaskan hunting and shooting forum that I have checked for info on some guided hunts and it seems the hunters in Alaska use mostly stainless steel and synthetic stocks. So much for the stainless rumor and so to that synthetic stocks don't hold up to cold weather without breaking.
I believe it was in information from Krieger or perhaps another barrel maker that there was a statement saying that they would not manufacture a featherweight contour barrel from stainless. The reason being that in extreme cold, the tensile strenght of stainless is reduced.
Crosshair
Member
Only problem I can think of would be a change in POI and that would be due to the powder burning slower in the cold more than the barrel. ( My 22-250 handloads shoot an inch or so lower at 100 yards when it is 20 below in the winter vs 70 in the summer.) Just don't stick your tongue on a cold barrel and you should be fine.
There is a note on the bottom of this page on Stainless and cold temps. I don`t know the paticulars so you`ll have to contact Krieger.
There was a lot of posting on one of the other forums I frequent that expanded some on this some time ago. I don`t remember the details except it seemed most thought the temp had to be pretty far below zero for the steel to be suspect, and didn`t think it was too big a deal.
http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/Rapid...ommon/viewPage.cfm&PageId=3390&CompanyId=1246
There was a lot of posting on one of the other forums I frequent that expanded some on this some time ago. I don`t remember the details except it seemed most thought the temp had to be pretty far below zero for the steel to be suspect, and didn`t think it was too big a deal.
http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/Rapid...ommon/viewPage.cfm&PageId=3390&CompanyId=1246
cmb3366
Member
Stainless does have less strength in severe cold, when compared to chrome moly, that is why you dont see many super lite contour stainless barrels. That said, for a standard contour proflie, stainless is superior to chrome moly in every way. It has superior corrosion resistance, they tend to resist throat errosion better, and they tend to show a (very) slight increase in accuracy. Thousands of Alaskan hunters and Benchrest shooters cant be wrong.
pcf
Member
Most stainless steels become very brittle around -300 degrees Fahrenheit, if you regularly store your rifle in a freezer at MIT you might want to let it warm up before shooting.
The cold will kill you long before it affects your rifle's barrel.
The cold will kill you long before it affects your rifle's barrel.
Just some possibly unrelated information, but my company uses crygenic distallation plants to produce pure oxygen, nitrogen, and argon (-310 F). The metals typically used for cryogenic service are stainless steel, aluminum, and copper alloys. That being said, we use austenitic stainless steels such as 304 or 316 stainless. I am not sure what stainless they use for barrels. Not all stainless steels are alike. I think austenitic stainless steels are unique in that respect.
However, I think you would have to get pretty damned cold before even normal steel would have problems, colder than 99% of us would ever see at least. I guess if they are designing a barrel close to the margin, extreme cold might have an effect from a CYA point of view. I would have to look up all the properties I guess. No time now.
However, I think you would have to get pretty damned cold before even normal steel would have problems, colder than 99% of us would ever see at least. I guess if they are designing a barrel close to the margin, extreme cold might have an effect from a CYA point of view. I would have to look up all the properties I guess. No time now.
zedheadmc
Member
Thanks all for your replies. Didn't make sense and thats why I asked.
MechAg94,
4160 Martensite stainless steel that has been tempered to a machinable condition is a very common gun barrel steel.
Because stresses occur in steel of all types but especially stainless steels during machining, cyrogenic treatments are useful for relieving the incurred stresses and returning the steel molecular structure back to the original, pre-machined form.
Austenitic steels are far easier to machine but do not have the structural integrity of higher carbon martensite steels.
Superthin stainless steel barrels will become more brittle when exposed to severe cold for extended periods.
Severe cold defined as less than -20 degrees Farenheight and extended periods defined as length of time greater than ten hours of consistant exposure.
The temperature generated by firing a cartridge through a barrel so exposed could cause the barrel steel to fracture, but the type of catridge, the peak pressure developed on firing the cartridge, the temperature and length of maximum temperature would play roles in how, or if, the barrel steel could be subjected to fracture level.
Generally stainless steel barrels with an external diameter that exceeds three and one half times the diameter of the bore retains structural integrity great enough to overcome the possibility of fracture in extreme conditions.
In other words a .224" caliber bore would require an external barrel dimension of .784" for the entire length of the bore to be considered structurally safe enough for use in extreme. long term, climatic conditions.
This equation does not take into effect the dimensions of the chamber area which must also be dimensioned to this equation for the chamber area to be considered safe and this formula then added to the overall barrel step dimensions. HTH
4160 Martensite stainless steel that has been tempered to a machinable condition is a very common gun barrel steel.
Because stresses occur in steel of all types but especially stainless steels during machining, cyrogenic treatments are useful for relieving the incurred stresses and returning the steel molecular structure back to the original, pre-machined form.
Austenitic steels are far easier to machine but do not have the structural integrity of higher carbon martensite steels.
Superthin stainless steel barrels will become more brittle when exposed to severe cold for extended periods.
Severe cold defined as less than -20 degrees Farenheight and extended periods defined as length of time greater than ten hours of consistant exposure.
The temperature generated by firing a cartridge through a barrel so exposed could cause the barrel steel to fracture, but the type of catridge, the peak pressure developed on firing the cartridge, the temperature and length of maximum temperature would play roles in how, or if, the barrel steel could be subjected to fracture level.
Generally stainless steel barrels with an external diameter that exceeds three and one half times the diameter of the bore retains structural integrity great enough to overcome the possibility of fracture in extreme conditions.
In other words a .224" caliber bore would require an external barrel dimension of .784" for the entire length of the bore to be considered structurally safe enough for use in extreme. long term, climatic conditions.
This equation does not take into effect the dimensions of the chamber area which must also be dimensioned to this equation for the chamber area to be considered safe and this formula then added to the overall barrel step dimensions. HTH
Onmilo, This sounds very similar to what I`d heard once before on the subject. The fact one needs to have the rifle in the extreem temp for extended periods to me means, unless one is hunting at the North pole for polar bear or Musk ox, it is unlikely the the steel type will be a problem.
-20 is very cold and I doubt many will hunt in these temps without returning to the tent or cabin to warm up at some point during the day. (even those in Montana or BC
)
The air will be very dry and rust shouldn`t be much of a bother. Freezing the striker or action because of excessive oil is likely a more common problem at these temps. The call for SS over carbon becomes less of an issue then it is for the guy hunting deer in a Mississippi swamp.
-20 is very cold and I doubt many will hunt in these temps without returning to the tent or cabin to warm up at some point during the day. (even those in Montana or BC
) The air will be very dry and rust shouldn`t be much of a bother. Freezing the striker or action because of excessive oil is likely a more common problem at these temps. The call for SS over carbon becomes less of an issue then it is for the guy hunting deer in a Mississippi swamp.
Bwana John
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Untill I need a thermometer that reads in degrees Kelvin, I aint that worried.
rbernie
Contributing Member
Even in the presence of sufficient 'mass' to preclude a total failure of the barrel, would there still not be some microcracking that could/would cause long-term durability issues?
Micro cracking can occur in any medium, at any temperature, and can, and sometimes does, cause failure at any time.
Just about all structures that are subjected to repeated stresses will show microscopic lines of seperation,(Micro cracking), on surface and core lines of the structure.
The real question is whether micro cracking is deep enough in the structure to cause overall failure and the dimensions I have quoted have shown to generally remain safe and structurally sound even in the event that microscopic seperation lines form in the surfaces of the steel.
Variables that can effect the depth and width of seperation lines would include excessive pressures above and beyond what the medium is rated for,
excessive peak flame temperatures above and beyond what the medium is rated for, subjecting the surface of the structure to excessive friction above and beyond what the medium is rated for,,,etc.
A barrel maker may elect to refuse production of a barrel in a medium at a dimension, or any dimension, for that matter, if the barrel maker deems the medium to be below the makers standards of tolerence or above the line of preventative litigation in the event of failure.
There is nothing that cannot be produced bar the fact that someone is responsible for the production of that part from a specified medium.
In other words, anything can be produced from any medium, however, potential producers do not neccessarily wish to incur the possibility of litigation in the event of failure.
Just about all structures that are subjected to repeated stresses will show microscopic lines of seperation,(Micro cracking), on surface and core lines of the structure.
The real question is whether micro cracking is deep enough in the structure to cause overall failure and the dimensions I have quoted have shown to generally remain safe and structurally sound even in the event that microscopic seperation lines form in the surfaces of the steel.
Variables that can effect the depth and width of seperation lines would include excessive pressures above and beyond what the medium is rated for,
excessive peak flame temperatures above and beyond what the medium is rated for, subjecting the surface of the structure to excessive friction above and beyond what the medium is rated for,,,etc.
A barrel maker may elect to refuse production of a barrel in a medium at a dimension, or any dimension, for that matter, if the barrel maker deems the medium to be below the makers standards of tolerence or above the line of preventative litigation in the event of failure.
There is nothing that cannot be produced bar the fact that someone is responsible for the production of that part from a specified medium.
In other words, anything can be produced from any medium, however, potential producers do not neccessarily wish to incur the possibility of litigation in the event of failure.
Horse pucky.
I've hunted with blued and stainless rifles in 3rd season in Colorado in extreme temps...
They both get cold, the both work just fine.
I've hunted with blued and stainless rifles in 3rd season in Colorado in extreme temps...
They both get cold, the both work just fine.
MCgunner
Member
Until it turns rust red....
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