Before I sell, please help me ID Wingmaster TB

[HoploDad]

Despite buying a gun to do so last decade, it seems unlikely I'll ever shoot trap. Dove and quail with a few buddies is heaven to me. Before I post this gun, and I will start by doing so on THR, I'd appreciate help what some of the proof marks mean to help assess value.

This came from an estate where the deceased had over $200,000 in shotguns. This gun was low on the totem pole compared to his $24,000 guns, but supposedly it was a favorite shooter.

One of the things I have read about the Wingmaster TB's and TC's is in addition to the Monte Carlo buttstock & fancier walnut, the factory trap barrels were very good and are today desirable.
- On the right side of this "full" choked 30" barrel, near the receiver, there is a mark that looks like an hour glass laying on its side. Next to it: AC 90. Centered: "Remington Arms, Ilion, NY Made in USA".
- On the left side, also near the receiver, there's a triangle with a C inside of it. To the right of that an empty triangle pointing to the front of the barrel with an odd shaped point, the word "REP" in a circle, a "J" next to that, and a short ways further on an "H". Also: a star, then "12 GA. for 2 3/4 IN Shells about in the center.

Is this enough information, plus the pictures, to know if this is an original TB trap barrel? Tips on value range in today's 870 market? It goes without saying, I won't sell via PM, it will need to be posted.

 

[PapaG]

TBs had either a mc or straight comb stock. Wood figure was slightly to much better than field guns. Checking was pressed. Barrels were marked "full" or "mod trap", but not "full tap". Receiver should have TB marking. Value around here before Covid, in 90% condition about $400-450

 

[Barnfixer]

I have done a little research on 870’s and some trap barrels are worth more than others, don’t think any could be called bad. I think your receiver should have TB marked on it. Looks like TB wood. Ivory front bead and mid bead? Barrels get swapped sometimes. I have a mid 80’s TA I bought new and the barrel is marked FULL. Everything I ever read about the TA’s was that they were field guns with plan trap wood with pressed checkering and no special markings. My action on that gun is very smooth and it’s marked TRAP and the wood has cut checkering. The FULL barrel is in the cabinet and I use a MOD TRAP on it now days. I’ve found out nothing is cut in stone with these guns.

 

[entropy]

Knowing any history might bump up the price, for instance, if the barrel had been worked on and by whom. Have the constriction checked before selling. Many of the 870 TB's had been jug choked or overbored for meat and card shoots, standard full is about .035, anything tighter should help the price if you advertise it as a meat shoot or handicap gun. Papa G's estimate is spot on at $400-450.

 

[Jim Watson]

Is there a step in the rib about 2" in front of the receiver? My similar 1100 TA does not have a stepped "original" barrel but later ones did, and should be worth a bit of a premium.

Since the USA does not have proof law like European countries, proof marks are particular to the manufacturer and not readily decoded. There is supposed to be a date buried in there on a Remington, you can check the Remington collector site for details.

 

[Encoreman]

Those older wingmaster's are pretty good shooters, that wood looks great. I would say it is worth $600+ in todays crazy market. Put it on GB on a penny auction and it may surprise you.

 

[HoploDad]

Is there a step in the rib about 2" in front of the receiver? My similar 1100 TA does not have a stepped "original" barrel but later ones did, and should be worth a bit of a premium.

More of a ramp up than a step up, is this what you mean, sir?

... Have the constriction checked before selling. Many of the 870 TB's had been jug choked or overbored for meat and card shoots, standard full is about .035, anything tighter should help the price if you advertise it as a meat shoot or handicap gun.

Okay, will do. Thanks very much.

 

[Jim Watson]

No, that is the standard vent rib, the step is abrupt.

 

[HoploDad]

I have done a little research on 870’s and some trap barrels are worth more than others, don’t think any could be called bad. I think your receiver should have TB marked on it. Looks like TB wood. Ivory front bead and mid bead? Barrels get swapped sometimes. I have a mid 80’s TA I bought new and the barrel is marked FULL... I’ve found out nothing is cut in stone with these guns.

Thanks. Yes to the things marked in blue; and with a single silver bead up front.

 

[HoploDad]

Is there a step in the rib about 2" in front of the receiver? My similar 1100 TA does not have a stepped "original" barrel but later ones did, and should be worth a bit of a premium.

No, that is the standard vent rib, the step is abrupt.

This is an "S" prefix, so I believe 1968 manufacture.

Man, 52 years old, if that's correct!

 

[Fishingted]

Those older wingmaster's are pretty good shooters, that wood looks great. I would say it is worth $600+ in todays crazy market. Put it on GB on a penny auction and it may surprise you.

Have to Agree 600+ with that beautiful Wood for sure.

 

[Barnfixer]

The wood on the gun looks like great trap furniture and TB one the receiver tells me it’s a trap gun. But the single silver bead up front and no mid bead would concern me. Check for a hole in the rib just in case the mid bead came out. I do think all trap models had mid beads. I’m also sure the gun shoots great but a buyer looking for a trap gun will look for this on the barrel.

 

[George P]

If the trap shooter is any good, he/she won't be looking for any beads on the barrels; they'll be checking to make sure the gun fits - and if it does, no beads are necessary

 

[JJFitch]

Trap is all about "fit"! Take it to any nearby trap clubs on a day they have a "shoot"! Have people check it out. The one guy that it fits perfectly will buy it on the spot!

Ask me how I know this!

Smiles,

 

[George P]

Absolutely; I have seen more BT-99s and 870 and 12s sold that way than any other - all three are good basic trap guns that are affordable AND reliable.

 

[Barnfixer]

If the trap shooter is any good, he/she won't be looking for any beads on the barrels; they'll be checking to make sure the gun fits - and if it does, no beads are necessary

Yes fit is the most important part. But if I’m paying the going price for a 870 tb trap, I want the trap barrel with it. The price is greatly effected with a field barrel vs it’s original trap barrel.

 

[joehxx]

The TB has a knockdown pin in the barrel to deflect shells downward when the shell is ejected.

 

[George P]

Yes fit is the most important part. But if I’m paying the going price for a 870 tb trap, I want the trap barrel with it. The price is greatly effected with a field barrel vs it’s original trap barrel.

SO? If the original trap barrel (34") had the middle or both beads removed is that a deal breaker for you? It isn't for me IF the gun FITS; if I need a bead, or worse TWO beads, to ensure gun fit, then the gun doesn't fit

 

[HoploDad]

Our local public/private trap club is closed down due to Covid19 carefulness, great idea though. Thanks for all these answers, I will offer it up soon; seeing if I can get the barrel ID mic'd. The previous owner (it shipped from Wisco) was ALL ABOUT shotgunning I was told. If the barrel's jug choked or over-bored that'd be good to know.

 

[entropy]

Be sure to have it done with a bore gauge, not just a micrometer. It should look like this:


It measures the difference between the muzzle and the bore, and is expressed in thousandths of an inch. As I mentioned before, .030-.035 is Full, over .035 is extra full. Many trap shooters would buy an extra 30" field rib full barrel, (not too long ago you could find them at gun shows for $25-$75) and have them jug choked or back bored for a meat/card shoot barrel. It is not unusual to find them with .040 or more constriction, as meat and card shoots were the big money games outside of handicaps. They are handy for Annie Oakleys also, some guys still will bring an extra full barrel and 1 1/4 oz. of 6's for going back past the back fence during Oakleys.

Any gunsmith that does much business in clays guns will have one, as do many competitors, we tend to buy and sell a lot of shotguns. If you are anywhere near Emory, TX, HoploDad, Phillip Crenwelge is one of the best in the biz, and definitely could gauge your barrel, and do any work you need or want done on it:

https://www.manta.com/c/mm8cq89/phillips-gunsmithing

 

[Barnfixer]

SO? If the original trap barrel (34") had the middle or both beads removed is that a deal breaker for you? It isn't for me IF the gun FITS; if I need a bead, or worse TWO beads, to ensure gun fit, then the gun doesn't fit

Not sure where your coming from. I never said the beads had anything to do with fit. Trap barrels come with two beads, field barrels come with one. I’m not going to pay the same price for a trap gun with a field barrel as I would for a trap gun with the correct barrel. Where did 34” come from? I would pay a premium for a factory 34” 870 barrel if the gun fit or not. HoploDad is doing the right thing and getting all the information. I also think a add at a local gun club is a great outlet. Lots of youth shooters out there looking for guns too.

 

[entropy]

I’m not going to pay the same price for a trap gun with a field barrel as I would for a trap gun with the correct barrel.

I would, or even pay more if, for instance Baker or Allem had backbored that field barrel to .045. I can put a mid bead on myself for next to nothing, if I really thought I needed one. The step rib isn't a huge difference unless you are collecting 'correct' 870 TB's in which case you are about 40 years too early, they are just too common yet. I suspect there may be less of them available in the near future as hunyuks whack the barrels barrels down to have that riot gun they should have bought 5 or even 2 years ago.

 

[Barnfixer]

I would, or even pay more if, for instance Baker or Allem had backbored that field barrel to .045. I can put a mid bead on myself for next to nothing, if I really thought I needed one. The step rib isn't a huge difference unless you are collecting 'correct' 870 TB's in which case you are about 40 years too early, they are just too common yet. I suspect there may be less of them available in the near future as hunyuks whack the barrels barrels down to have that riot gun they should have bought 5 or even 2 years ago.

I’m with ya 100% on that.

 

[George P]

Not sure where your coming from. I never said the beads had anything to do with fit. Trap barrels come with two beads, field barrels come with one. I’m not going to pay the same price for a trap gun with a field barrel as I would for a trap gun with the correct barrel. Where did 34” come from? I would pay a premium for a factory 34” 870 barrel if the gun fit or not. HoploDad is doing the right thing and getting all the information. I also think a add at a local gun club is a great outlet. Lots of youth shooters out there looking for guns too.

Typical trap barrel lengths are longer than field barrel lengths

 

[HoploDad]

Aha! Okay, this barrel is 30 inches. The last task is to see if it's jugged/choked which could be possible, given the last owner. Looking out my window, all the tree twigs and leaves are covered with ice, and more weather is moving in. Although I'd hoped to list this weekend, I'll first take that final step, when weather permits a visit to the 'smith. Ice shuts us down, no salt trucks to speak of, for the roads.

Thanks, y'all. Doing a thing is the most fun, but learning about it is still high on the enjoyment list.