Beretta 92S: target diagnosis?

[AZAndy]

Tried out my "new" 92S over the weekend, and it was shooting like this:


Target #1: 10 yards, 15 rounds.



Target #2: Also ten yards, 15 rounds.

The shooting to the left thing, I can straighten out, but what the heck is going on with that vertical string? At that distance with a 1911, nothing would be outside the yellow, and there'd be hits in the green, and the group would be roundish, so I don't think it was me. Barrel not locking in place correctly maybe? When I did my pre-clean and lube before shooting it for the first time, I didn't take the block apart, so maybe things were gummed up a bit? Interesting that the second target was slightly tighter than the first, but the mysterious problem is still evident.

 

[RX-79G]

That is a shooter problem, not a gun problem at 10 yards. You couldn't break a 92 to string that much at such a close range.

I imagine the problem is the way the 92 trigger breaks compared to a 1911. Additionally, those small 92S sights probably aren't helping. Dry fire practice and shooting from a rest would probably help.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

This page (which shows examples) MIGHT give you some ideas as to what's causing the problems. I used to see that sort of pattern when I was shooting rapidly and NOT getting the sights properly aligned with each shot.

http://www.targetshooting.ca/docs/grp-analysis.pdf

 

[243winxb]

Guns and ammo make for a large difference in accuracy. http://s338.photobucket.com/user/joe1944usa/library/FirearmsReloading102/9MM Accuracy

 

[RX-79G]

Guns and ammo make for a large difference in accuracy. http://s338.photobucket.com/user/joe1944usa/library/FirearmsReloading102/9MM Accuracy

Guns and ammo frankly can't be the explanation for an 8" group at 10 yards, the equivalent of a 20" group at 25 yards.

 

[243winxb]

Then you didn't fire one of the first early Ruger 9mms.

 

[RX-79G]

Then you didn't fire one of the first early Ruger 9mms.

I did not. But when people are talking about the terrible accuracy of the 9mm M&P they are still only talking about 8" at 25 yards.

However, Beretta 92 pistols are very accurate. So unless this one has a split barrel, chances are vertical stringing (rather than random large groups) has nothing to do with the gun.

 

[167]

Anytime I am having issues with a gun, my first step is usually to let someone else that I know is a good shooter try it and see if they get similar results. If they do, then I know it is a gun problem. If not, I know it is a user problem.

Assuming that the POA is the center of the target, I find it odd that the hits are stringing both above and below that. Typically shooter issues, at least in my experience, manifest themselves consistently one way or the other.

The only mechanical issue I can think of that would cause that sort of stringing would be some type of lock up issue. Either the gun is not consistently locking up the same because of worn/broken parts, or is unlocking early for the same reason. Being that this gun has had a previous life that is somewhat unknown, I would be suspect of worn/broken parts.

 

[RX-79G]

Assuming that the POA is the center of the target, I find it odd that the hits are stringing both above and below that.

That's the assumption, but it isn't necessarily the case. The 92S is likely set up for a 6 o'clock hold on a 5" bull, not a center hold. With the exception of 2 rounds, every shot is 2" below the center and stringing up from there.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Without having actually seen you shoot, we can only guess, but there are usually several common issues
1. At only 10 yards and with the tighter second group, it isn't a gun issue
2. You really can't compare the Beretta with how you normally shoot a 1911, I think we're really seeing 2 separate issues
3. The wide Beretta frame isn't being gripped the same way as your 1911, you're likely trying to index your fingers the same way on the frame and your twisting the gun to the left
4. Adapting to the different trigger feel, you are likely anticipating the release and jerking the trigger.

What makes it hard to tell is the number of shots in the target. It would be much easier to help if you fired fewer shots so that we look for a consistent pattern. As a diagnostic technique, I recommend no more than 1-3 shots on a target. Just shoot a series of 3 shots strings at a set of 1" dots; you could even move the target closer. I like to see groups at 5-7 yards, but I'd expect all the shots to pretty much touch

 

[AZAndy]

All I can say is that the sights were perfectly aligned and centered in the green for every shot, and that they didn't move until the gun fired. I was going very slowly as this was my first experience shooting a pistol of this type, with a deliberate, careful squeeze of the trigger. I've never seen a target look like that, even when shooting something I'm not so good with (DAO snubnose). I should have saved my P938 targets from the same session; they were the same distance, with several hits in the green, and none went outside the yellow ring.

I'll rig up a rest to mostly remove myself from the equation and see what happens.

 

[9mmepiphany]

That kind of dispersion is quite common...but usually when shooters are shooting faster. In those cases, it is usually a matter of over gripping the gun with the strong hand.

Are you shooting with a high thumb or a locked down thumb?

 

[243winxb]

My vertical happens because my 72 year old eyes don't see the rear sight well, when focused on the front.

Yours may be from the difference in the triggers ?

 

[Old Shooter]

"The only mechanical issue I can think of that would cause that sort of stringing would be some type of lock up issue. Either the gun is not consistently locking up the same because of worn/broken parts, or is unlocking early for the same reason. Being that this gun has had a previous life that is somewhat unknown, I would be suspect of worn/broken parts."

Field strip the gun and check the locking block and its mating spaces. Some of the 92 series have had the blocks break and Beretta has since modified some of the sharp corners to address this issue. Google "Beretta locking blocks" for more information and pictures of what to look for. If that is not a problem the only other thing I can of is anticipating recoil and the different triggers between your 1911 and the Beretta.

 

[AZAndy]

Thanks for the suggestions, all. I didn't remove the locking block and do a clean and lube in that area before I fired it, just the rails and slide, so there may have been some gunk or grit in there. I did do a thorough job after shooting, including disassembly of barrel/block. Just pulled the block out and went over it with a hand lens, no flaws that I can detect-- in fact, the finish is pretty much untouched. I'll rig up an impromptu rest over the weekend and give it another try!