Beretta PX4F vs. SW M&P

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NoVAshooter

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I am looking to replace my full size .40. Currently I have a Sigma but I am really sick of the trigger on it. Its not even fun to shoot at a range due to the gritty trigger.
What do you guys recommend - Beretta PX4F or S&W MP. I am biased towards the Beretta because of the single action trigger.
Does anyone know how many lbs is the trigger on both these pistols?
 
I'd just suggest a trigger job. A little research along with what you already know about your current pistol and you may be able to stave off the disappointing offer you'll receive on your used Sigma.

Have a look around here, saw a post recently about a Sigma trigger fix. Otherwise a YouTube video or 2 should fix you right up.
 
Hands down, the M&P.

I still have yet to meet someone who carries a PX4. I know plenty of people who carry an M&P, myself included. :)
 
I can't compare the two, to be honest. I've never fired a PX4, nor do I have any plans to in the future.

The M&P is a proven, reliable handgun, and LE agencies all over the country have been turning in their Glocks for M&Ps. (I realize a lot of that is marketing, but Gen 4 does kinda suck and LE agencies wouldn't purposely switch to a crap gun...)

Like I said, my only reasoning would be the fact that the M&P is proven to be reliable, and I haven't met anyone at my club (40 lanes filled nearly constantly) who carries a PX4 daily.
 
I've never held the M&P, but the px4 felt very comfortable in my hand. Haven't really researched either. I chose an XD9 (love that gun) over the px4 last time around but now think I'd like to have a 40 so I'm on the hunt. I'll have to look at the M&P.

sorry to hijack NoVa...
 
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I have not shot the M&P but I have spent a few years with my PX4, which I like a lot. But, I also like my CZ75 P-01. Fact is, I have a hard time deciding which I like better.

The PX4 has been a fine piece. 100% reliable. But, like any pistol, the gun has to FIT your hand and your eye. I have a $200 Bersa Thunder .380 that I have kept for years due to the fact that it shoots strait and shoots every pull of the trigger. Yet, I hear people trash them. I could care less, mine works.

I like the PX4 because it fits and it works.

YMMV
 
I have both a PX-4F in 9mm and a M&P9. The S&W is the one coming in second at my house.

I carry the PX-4 daily and couldn't care less about what cops carry, primarily because most cops are not handgun enthusiasts any more than they are field radio nuts.

If cops are the standard to live by, shouldn't you being trying to keep a Crown Vic or an ancient Chevy Caprice on the road before moving down to a Dodge or a Chevy Malibu?
 
Alot of cops carry Glocks, I don't like Glocks.

I'm interested in the PX4, just need to get my hands on one to see how it fits.
 
The rotating barrel on the 9mm and .40 noticeably tame the recoil. Even though it weighs 6oz less, the 9mm px4 had less recoil than my 92F and the 92 is a soft shooter. The night sights are a standard feature, which is a plus.

The PX4s are just as reliable as the 92/96 series. The reason you dont hear/see much about them is because Berettas marketing department seems to be non-existent. If the px4 fits your hand, you like the trigger and you like its looks, buy it. You won't be disappointed.
 
Did you not read the entirety of my statement, Pizza, or did you just pick out the parts you wanted to attack?

I never said that I bought an M&P because "cops did," I mentioned it as a sign of trust and reliability. I also never mentioned "cops" as being handgun enthusiasts. Ultimately an agency will NOT choose a weapon that isn't proven to be reliable.

I am not bashing the PX4. Like I said before, I have never handled nor shot one, I'm simply stating I know of no one who carries one at my club, that's all.

Fivetwoseven - I don't like Glocks, either. The grip causes me to naturally aim the gun down a bit more than I'd like, and it just feels "off" in my hand.
 
Geeze guys...undies bunched this early in the am? Haha

For me it's M&P I've had both and though I did like the Beretta, the M&P was the favorite. However they both have TOTALLY different ergonomics and should be handled at the least before purchased.

Just a note though, if you're wanting trigger bliss there's little better than an M&P with a $30 Apex hard sear. Totally turned my really good M&P's into awesome M&P's.
 
I have had both the Px4Storm and M&P and M&Pc.
For me the Beretta wins hands down. I like the da/sa, the accuracy and trigger were better with Px4, and the Px4 is just cool looking too :)

M&P is a good gun. I'll take a more accurate hammer fired vs striker fired handgun.
But, that is me. I know many guys that just like their striker fired guns. To each his own. Both would serve you well for sport of defense.
 
It just takes a little, known, special care, that last

I carry the PX-4 daily and couldn't care less about what cops carry, primarily because *most cops are not handgun enthusiasts any more than they are field radio nuts.

If cops are the standard to live by, shouldn't you being trying to keep a Crown Vic or an ancient Chevy Caprice on the road before moving down to a Dodge or a Chevy Malibu?
Click to expand...
...

Actually, I find these thoughts quite true for *many..

That being said, I can attest to the benefits a Px4 40 offers, having one, now, for just over 5yrs..

But the truth should be part of my information and one of the facts is, it is true that some LEA's tried them and had problems with them, namely, FTF issues which from all my years with my gun, now with some 11k of flawless use and it shoots just about anything I feed it be it FMJ or JHP's.

But the heart and soul of any Px4 is the rotating barrel action which can have a weakness IF not lubricated "enough"..

Using gun oil is fine IF one takes the time, all of 10 sec's to dissemble one, then add another 5 mins for a full inspection and re-application of oil where one finds dry spots or thin to dry spots, namely, on the rotating barrels "slot groove" and on the bottom of the return spring housing "hub" that clks on-top of it.

Another area that seems to get a lot of un-attention is the slide hammer cam rail and when a gun just sits, used for a week or more, these 2 areas mentioned, become dry and if using common ammo, one should expect spent black powder in these areas. IF one uses too much oil, the it simply throws/ejects the over-flow back and down mixing with spent black powder and it's a hot mix as it flys and as it goes down, via gravity itself, and when it cools, one has a goo like thick mess that when one, say, fires the gun once a month, one gets a first cold shot wake-up FTF jam session.

One need only, if one is gonna let his gun sit for weeks without the easy 10min inspection/quick cleaning a/o add lubrication only in these vital areas, and the rails and guides as well, then one need only use a gun grease, such as Tetra white gun grease on these areas mentioned with the exception of the hammer cam rail within the slide which can be cleaned with a swipe of a Q-tip with gun oil, any synthetic, dry lube, such as Eexoz or CLP, etc. Applications of gun grease would appear, look like, the same ice like sheen that one would use applying gun oil but the big difference is the grease stays put, does not fly, does not evaporate from heat or time and can allow a lazy owner to not do anything with the gun except shoot it once or twice a month.

Now, if one takes these known hints that make the Px4 a reliable, dependable, accurate, gun they will have no FTF issues, but as I said, giving one's weapon that one may depend on, just that quick, easy, 10 min inspection and quick cleaning, feed ramp, barrel chamber, hammer cam, rails/guides, and chk and verify the barrel slot groove and hub have sufficient lubrication, they would find that grease is still there, oil may not be, but with min care the gun offers excellent grip via 3 back straps.

Excellent DA/SA right out of the box along with one can put the hammer in a semi-cock mode, still DA, but shorter pull.. it's nice.

As I said, mine and many many many other's in the civilian world that own and shoot them can attest to what I have said and for those that do not like to inspect their weapons nor shoot but once a month, then, sure, a Glock, or some other weapon may be their better choice..

But for soft/balanced/forgiving/felt recoil and natural, quick, fall back on-target accuracy be it a 2 hand grip, one hand grip, weak hand grip, the Px4 will continue to shoot as mine has done, along with many others, given the_right preparations.

One short term - the better, long term, using gun grease one can go either way, quick inspections or just put gun down over and over after a days work and only shoot it once a month.

My Px4 G-model (decocker-only) DA/SA 40cal

Picture410.jpg


The heart and soul, barrel slot groove and return-spring housing "hub" (use gun grease for long term)
image008-1.jpg

Feed angle, almost none, bullets go straight in (and either put gun oil or gun grease on exterior of barrel, forward of chamber
Picture407.jpg

Again, 11k flawless rounds here over 5yrs and many, many, others with 1000's of the same flawless, reliable, dependable, accurate, continuing "actions".

OMMV,



Ls
 
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I own a PX4, and PX4sc both 9mm

I also once owned a 9mm S&W M&P and S&W M&P Pro series. I would choose the PX4 hands down over the M&P. I did not like the ergonomics or trigger on the M&P's and traded both of them after a short time.
 
I had both. Sold the M&P. Could never warm up to it. I like the PX4 much better.
 
I was just reading through some of those posts earlier, too. They are really, really tough on the PX4 over there.
Click to expand...

They are tough on anything that is not reliable. If a gun does not run well or has issues, they will call a spade a spade.
 
Seems to be fine to me if Lone star has put over 11K round through it without a problem.
 
That is a sample of one. The design has proven unreliable in the eyes of trainers such as Todd G (who was also working with Beretta when it was designed) as well as the few police departments that were foolish enough to adopt it after seeing dozens of samples of the guns being garbage. That is much more statistically relevant than one poster having good luck with his.
 
I read them, there was good and bad, not just bad

...

Ok, I read all those links and there were as many good things reported as there where bad, namely, which I forgot to mention was the trigger sting issue, namely with "early batch numbered 40's, of which I got one, PY125** and it developed it at the 2000 round mark, only in cold temps, but by summer, thru early fall, it became a full time thing until after 2 mags worth for it to go away as the gun warmed up.

I turned that gun in on Warranty and they sent me, nearly 7 months later, a replacement NIB gun, a much later/newer batch PY383** and it has some 4k flawless rounds thus far and no trigger sting, even on and during the cold winter temps so I'm satisfied that the problem was isolated to early batch guns.

My original early version did have 6450 flawless rounds, but the trigger sting was too much for me to try and get thru 3 mags worth before my finger was killing me so I put the gun back in my bag and continued shooting, on avg, 100 rounds more thru one of my Sig P229n/r 40's with no trigger sting issues, as it should be..

My new replacement, newer batch Px4 40 has 4k flawless rounds and no sting and I'm satisfied it was an isolated problem in some of the early batch numbered guns only..

I will agree that IF one is a civilian with a warranty problem, get rdy for a long wait and poor CS relations but if one is a LEA/LEO then you get put in the front of the line and guys like me get put back on the back burners and that did and does suck..

But the DA trigger pulls are smooth, least both mine were out of the box and I had them put a D spring in my replacement gun which lightened it down to around 8lb with a SA pull of around 4lb, crisp and sharp break.

The Cougar series guns had an "open end" return spring housing which both ends looked the same yet, they had to go on the right way and there was/is an arrow on the sides of the hub pointing towards the muzzle end.. IF one put the hub on backwards, and force the slide lock, it would cause jams big time.

It was a gun, as is the "more simple" made idiot proof now with the close end hub that can only go on one way, the right way and as I said, it is the heart and soul of any Px4 and needs proper/lasting lubrication and grease serves this purpose well and for a long long time, as I have gone 1000 rounds, easy, with either gun before cleaning out the old grease and rails, etc., and re-applying fresh, clean grease for another, ongoing 1000 trouble free session with my current and past Px4 40..

As mentioned, far to many that "are issued a gun" don't take care of it like it was one they owned and that is why Glocks do so well, and they do, as they don't cost much when it comes to quantity LEA buys and they need little care, if at all, otherwise, idiot proof, which, far too many new, and some old die-hards, in LEA care little about a gun they don't really own..

And it can show up at the worst times, during drills or out in the field but it is not the fault of the gun, rather, namely in most cases, operator error or neglect..

Taking a service weapon, unchecked, un-learned, about it's vital parts, namely the action of the rotating barrel is not a weakness of the gun - but of the user, for the very most part..

They're very forgiving guns - given the min of the "right care" and preparation and I know, without doubt, my gun, most civi's guns, with the right preparation can go well over 2000 rounds of continuous fire or a 1000 rounds this week, another 1000 rounds next week or break it down to over 2 months and with gun grease on all items mentioned, including rails and guides and exterior of barrel without need to take a quick, easy, 10 sec disassembly, and 2 min inspection to see that the grease is still there and put it back together and go shoot another 1000 continuous rounds without concern.

The Px4 is a far better, more idiot proof design, than the Cougar series as mentioned and anyone reading this can go over to the Beretta Forum and see that since the trigger sting issue/complaints that myself and one other started some 3yrs ago is a flaw and complaint of the past and that the sudden surge in Px4 buyers over the last 2yrs and, especially this year, there are no complaints repeating over and over with the exception of low and left and we all know how that works for a beginner..

I'd put them down as 98% satisfied owners with 2% with some kind of problem, namely FTF and half those are cheap ammo and the other is lack of lubrication.

During that crappy, unfair 6 month, 3 week wait for my replacement gun, after the 2nd month, of waiting, I bought a used Sig P229/n/r 40 and within the next 3 months, of waiting, I bought a second used P229/n/r 40 and I can tell you that between the 2, Sig P229 40's and my Px4 40 they are 2 of the most balanced, soft/shooting/felt/ recoiling 40's with a natural, quick fall back on-target, quickly, with accuracy guns out there that I have shot,and nothing against Glocks 40's but they can't compare IMHO, having shot a few. Accurate yes, but much more muzzle flip in and with the Glocks vs either Sig 229 or Px4

The Px4's are a great buy for the money and I'd stack mine up with my Sigs any day - for any ongoing torture test but, then, I'm not into really torturing my guns, but do know they can, and should, be able to go 1000 rounds without any further help/maintenance from me simply because they are set up right to start out with - for long term use in-between major cleanings.


OMMV,


Ls
 
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Is no one else here in favor of the OP spending an hour on fixing what he does not like about his current pistol? The Sigma is as close to a Glock as you can get (as a few lawsuits proved) which is to say reliable as they come. Even should he decide the task too daunting to attempt a trigger job there's always a simple $50 solution at the gun smith's shop.

I'm not one for selling a pistol because it lacks a particular type of sight, only comes with 2 magazines or has ugly grips. I buy replacement parts. The only real downside to the Sigma would be that proprietary rail, still not a deal breaker.
 
That is a sample of one. The design has proven unreliable in the eyes of trainers such as Todd G (who was also working with Beretta when it was designed) as well as the few police departments that were foolish enough to adopt it after seeing dozens of samples of the guns being garbage. That is much more statistically relevant than one poster having good luck with his.
Click to expand...

It is amusing that you criticize a "sample of one" when that is what everyone raves about over on ToddG's worship site of the HK P30. I guess some people are easily impressed when they want to positively adopt the same flimsy level of proof they use to reject the things they don't want. After all, using samples of one, the HK P30 is God's gift to handgunnery and by comparison the M&P a piece of dreck that became unsafe to fire in just over half as many rounds down range.

This is not to mention that we're talking, from his past writings about the PX-4's development, about a likely disgruntled ex-employee of Beretta, one who is in fact spreading anecdotal "information," and who could, but does not, acquire a PX-4 and try to take it to 100k rounds himself to show the world what garbage it is.

Where's that grain of salt at? Oh yeah, next to the mallet I have never needed when firing a PX-4, any more than I have needed the JB Weld for the ejection window cracking on my M&P 9's slide.
 
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