Berry DEWC 148 grain bullet load

[dwstone1227]

I just bought 1,000 rounds of this bullet for paper punching fun.I bought this bullet just for fun and education. I have shot a few boxes of commercial wad cutters and have really enjoyed them.


When I go to the reload books, Hornady shows a DEWC bullet (#10308) discontinued as the closest printed load data source. Using this Hornady lead bullet data shows a maximum load of 3.0 grains of Bullseye which will run this bullet at 750 fps. Berry's has stated in the past (I cannot find it on their web page now, but it was posted there in the past) that their plated 148 gr DEWC bullet should be loaded to achieve at least 800 fps.

I found a THR thread last posted over 437 days ago which addressed this bullet while searching for a Bullseye load for the Berry 148 grain DEWC. I must be missing something since some of the respondents in this thread as loading this bullet with powder charges that will not reach 800 fps. The most common Bullseye load was 2.8 grains for this bullet which will only achieve 700 fps for the Hornady Bullet #10308.

So the next question is do I load over 3.0 gr Bullseye to reach the minimum 800 fps recommended velocity?

If it matters, I am shooting this in two revolvers: 1.) S&W 5 inch Texas Ranger 357 2.) S&W Model 66, 3 inch, 357.

I look forward to hearing comments from you all. I'm new to reloading. It is a great way to learn.

 

[walnut1704]

I suspect it has something to do with the relative hardness of the plated bullet. If you look at cast bullet data for wadcutters you'll often see heavier loads than you do for the swagged lead bullets. There's a reason for this. The lighter loads used with the much softer swagged lead bullets don't create enough pressure to obturate the cast bullet and accuracy suffers. This was certainly my experience. When I tried to use the standard 2.8-3.0 gr of Bullseye and equivalent loads with the cast bullets accuracy just wasn't there. Upping the charge solved the problem.

I don't think it's a safety issue, just an accuracy issue. If the lighter charge works for you then you're good. If not, increase it. I believe Berry's says to use cast bullet data for their product.

Everybody has their own standards for accuracy. Some can't shoot well enough to tell the difference, or don't shoot at long enough ranges for it to be an issue. I'm sure for some those lighter loads did indeed prove to be accurate in their guns. What matters is how it works for you.

Edit: FYI castpics.net shows a max of 4.5 gr of Bullseye with a cast RCBS 148gr WC for a velocity of 950 fps. The same bullet shows 4.5 gr of W231 and my notes say I used 4.0 gr of W231. You can start with the 3.0 of Bulseye and work up if you need.

 

[Walkalong]

3.0 grs of Bullseye is kind of light for a plated DEWC which takes more energy to get it out of the barrel than a lead HBWC or lead DEWC.

I don't load any plated DEWC to 800 FPS. More like 700ish. The trick is to make sure the load has enough energy to get the bullet out of the barrel every single time no matter what position the powder is in in relation to the bullet. I suspect that is why they spec 800 FPS, to make sure.

3.7 Grs of WST gave me an Avg 744 FPS powder back against the primer and a Berrys 148 Gr HBWC @ 1.240 OAL gave me an Avg 739 FPS powder forward against the bullet. That is very good. Lighter charges, and especially some powders, can lose 150ish to 300ish FPS powder forward against the bullet. (4" barrel) I like this load.

4.0 Grs of Solo 1000 gave 676 and 693 FPS with that bullet. (6" slow barrel)

3.2 Grs of N310 and the Berrys DEWC @ 1.240 OAL gave 599 and 559 FPS (Slow 6" barrel)

3.5 Grs Competition with the Berrys 148 gr DEWC gave 620 and 591 FPS from a slow 6" barrel.

Just a couple of examples of why 3.0 Grs Bullseye is too light for plated. And these were ones where not much velocity was lost powder forward. I have tried the X-Treme 148 gr DEWC with similar results.

The listing of these loads are for demonstration only and I cannot guarantee that they are safe. Use at your own risk.

 

[mbopp]

One of the most accurate loads in my M-19 was 6.0 gr of Unique with the Berry's DEWC loaded in 357 cases. Not exactly a low-velocity target load, but it shot well.

 

[Skinnedknuckles]

The Berry data specifying 800 fps is for the HBWC. They don't list the same concern for the DEWC. I called Berry's when I started loading the HBWC and they told me the reason for the warning was the chance of a stuck bullet at lower loadings. I assume this is because the hollow base "skirt" expands and increases drag, but that is just a guess and not something Berry's told me.

The Berry tech told me to use, as a minimum, a load that was reported to yield >800 fps using a lead HBWC. The speed of the plated HBWC at the same load would be less but with little chance of a stuck bullet.

I've loaded a bunch of them using 3.5 gr HP-38 (your results may vary!!!) which yields an accurate load at about 725 fps in my revolvers. The HBWC bullet disappeared from Berry's web site for a while (they are back now) so I bought some X-Treme DEWC and they also shoot well with the same load, but I haven't shot them over the chrony to see if they yield the same velocities.

 

[Walkalong]

A day at the range checking a new bullet (X-Treme) against another one that shot well (Berrys). .38 Spl.

X-Treme 148 Gr DEWC @ 1.240 OAL with 3.7 Grs Competition on the left.
Avg 797 PB, 748 PF, & 795 PL. A little faster than I intended.

Berrys 148 Gr HBWC @ 1.240 OAL with 3.6 Grs Competition on the right.
Avg 663 PB, 697 PF, & 685 PL. Gave nearly 750 FPS at 90 Degrees previously.

Only one group each, 6 shots each PB, PF, & PL. 18 per target. Going to bump the X-Treme load back to 3.6 and try again.

 

[cfullgraf]

I'd suggest using some care using HBWC load data with at least plated DEWC bullets.

I like the Berry plated 148 DEWC and have used alot of them. I did have some start up issues though.

I used the max load from the Hodgdon data for Clays for the 148 lead HBWC and the velocity was too low with the Berry bullets to clear a 6" barrel. Fortunately, they would shoot in a 2" barreled gun so that I did not have to disassembled them. Velocity from the 6" barrel was 550 to 600 fps.

Clays did not set my life on fire so I have moved on to other powders. But I shoot for velocities greater than 700 fps and what I am loading now is closer to 800 fps from the 6" barrel.

Note, I use the bullets for plinking.

 

[Walkalong]

Clays didn't wow me either, but I was able to get some accurate loads with it in more than one caliber. I still have a new pound of it and wouldn't hesitate to use it. (Spikey near the top)

.357 brass. 3.3 Grs Clays. X-Treme 158 Gr SWC. Two hands standing 12 shots.

 

[cfullgraf]

My Clays is leftover from loading shot shells.

I also ended up at 3.3 to 3.4 grains but with the plated 148 DEWC.

(NOTE: This is higher than Hodgdon's data so approach with caution.)

I do not remember what Hodgdon listed as the test firearm with 38 Special and Clays, but their velocity data seemed too much different from mine even accounting for normal equipment differences.

Other powders performed closer to what I expected so I moved on.

 

[ATLDave]

I have loaded a lot of Berry's (and Xtreme) plated DEWC's over published charges of AA#2 that are not advertised to get over 800fps. I agree that the concern is a stuck bullet, which might happen at slightly higher velocities for copper-plated versus lead. Watch the paper for holes when you work up the load!

 

[dwstone1227]

Thanks for all the helpful advise. For sure I was watching for holes in the paper while shooting the first 10 test rounds using Bullseye. I used 3.0 grains, the maximum recommended load for a lead Hornady DEWC. Starting at the maximum load is not recommended, but that seemed safer than risking a stuck bullet. I figure if I am shooting a well made 357 revolver it ought to be able to handle a 38 load at maximum. As luck would have it, my second bullet out of the barrel using the 3.0 grain load was right on the first hole (pure chance, not skill). I did stop and check the paper and then make sure I could see light through the barrel before doing anything else. I do not have a chronograph and where I do most of my shooting (indoors), is not open to using chronographs.

I really like the holes these wad cutters make. It's all part of the fun and learning.
Thanks again

 

[Sunray]

"...which takes more energy to get it out of the barrel than a lead HBWC or lead DEWC..." 148 grains is 148 grains. Takes the same amount of energy to move 148 grains regardless of the bullet construction. In ay case, you load for the bullet weight and jacketed or cast, not its construction.
The MAX load of Bullseye for a 148 HBWC is 3.1. Gives 799 fps out of their 6" test barrel.

 

[ATLDave]

Takes the same amount of energy to move 148 grains regardless of the bullet construction.

So friction is fiction?

 

[Walkalong]

He's wrong on this one, it takes less energy to get a lead 148 Gr bullet out of the barrel than a 148 Gr plated or jacketed one. Lubed lead bullets have less friction than plated or jacketed, and the added friction from them must be overcome, along with the weight of the bullet.

It's easily tested and confirmed.

 

[Richard Head]

I'm working up a load with these bullets and had a chance to chronograph a couple of rounds using 357 Magnum brass. All loads had an overall length of 1.3" with a mild roll crimp and were fired from a Ruger SP101.

5.2 grains of Unique Averaged 930 fps
6.5 grain of Power pistol averaged 979 fps


Accuracy was decent not great. I'm in the process of working the amount of powder down looking for a more accurate load with these bullets. I heard you need to use a larger charge of powder than the minimum lead bullet data shown in manuals to prevent getting a bullet stuck in the bore due plated bullets having more friction as they move through he bore than lead bullets, but these loads were a little too fast for top accuracy right? I will be using Unique and I'll try HP-38 with these bullets going forward.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Indeed, the hardness of the copper plating, and greater coefficient of friction take a bit of more " umph" to get it going through the forcing cone of a revolver. Remember, the lead bullets are softer and are lubricated.
Makes a significant difference at the relatively low pressures of the .38 spl.

Remember, max with most HBWC loads are where you start to blow off the skirts. You'll get horrible accuracy, double hits at close ranges, and chance of skirt left in barrel that causes nasty barrel bulges. Ask me how I know!!! (Thank you Curtis Shipley, aka Master Cartridge/Georgia arms circa 1991!)