Berry's vs extreme 30-30 plated

[AJC1]

Anyone have experence with both.... I'm curious because despite my misgivings about berry's they worked really well. Are they basically the same bullet or did the load data change a lot?

 

[Walkalong]

I tried both in 300 Blackout and they both tumbled, so I have two partial boxes of 100. I doubt there’s much difference between them

 

[AJC1]

I tried both in 300 Blackout and they both tumbled, so I have two partial boxes of 100. I doubt there’s much difference between them

You must not be talking about the 159 flat nose...

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I have ran the Berrys in my 30/30 and 30.06. They worked well.

 

[GW Staar]

I tried both in 300 Blackout and they both tumbled, so I have two partial boxes of 100. I doubt there’s much difference between them

So now you got me curious. Big heavy bullets, very little powder, is there really a stable combination? What do you use and prefer, that is stable and accurate? Or maybe this is getting too off topic. 30-30 isn't quite that scenario. Maybe a quick answer and return?

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

In the .06 13 grains of red dot was good for shooting steel out to 200 yards. I ran with 9 grains in the 30/30. Open sights though. I just used it to dance cans out to 50 yards.

 

[AJC1]

So now you got me curious. Big heavy bullets, very little powder, is there really a stable combination? What do you use and prefer, that is stable and accurate? Or maybe this is getting too off topic. 30-30 isn't quite that scenario. Maybe a quick answer and return?

Off topic we don't do that.... blah haha

 

[Bush Pilot]

I have ran the Berrys in my 30/30 and 30.06. They worked well.

Which powder and what kind of accuracy in the .30/30?

 

[GW Staar]

Off topic we don't do that.... blah haha

He's my friend....that means he'll answer in a PM, and you and everybody else will just have to miss out!

 

[Walkalong]

You must not be talking about the 159 flat nose...

My bad, remembered wrong, just looked it up, I shot the X-Treme 123 and 150 in 300 BLK. I ran the 123 up to low 2100s and the 150 to mid 1800s, no tumbling, but horrible, and I mean horrible, accuracy. Not sure if I pushed them too hard or what.

 

[GW Staar]

Well that's interesting too! I have not gotten that interested in 300BLK...... yet.

I do have a Winchester 30-30 that dates back to the early 1920's. But I've never reloaded for it. It has the long forearm stock. I did have it restored like new, since it was my grandfather's saddle gun, and it got de-blued from the scabbard. Built a new walnut stock for it too, so it's georgous, but not a historical collectors item.

Maybe I should reload for it......watching your thread with interest. Sure is fun to shoot.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

Which powder and what kind of accuracy in the .30/30?

9 grains of red dot. No problem dancing pop cans out to 50 yards shooting standing up. With the irons.

 

[AJC1]

My bad, remembered wrong, just looked it up, I shot the X-Treme 123 and 150 in 300 BLK. I ran the 123 up to low 2100s and the 150 to mid 1800s, no tumbling, but horrible, and I mean horrible, accuracy. Not sure if I pushed them too hard or what.

I was honestly impressed with the berry's. Were still talking 2.5 inches at 50 yards but that's offhand unsupported, so good enough for my needs on steel. Carbines act differently off a rest than offhand due to contact points on barrels not free floated.

 

[joneb]

I tried a sampling of 30ct from Xtreme These were 150gr FP Cu plated with a manufacture speed limit of 1600 fps. So I used Blue Dot, this worked okay but there a notable POI shift from standard loads.
I have used Xtreme 123gr .311" Cu plated for 7.62x39 with a speed limit of 2000fps and those did very well with H-4198 in a SKS.
So I'm not sure why Xtreme did not offer the 150gr .309" with a plating that could be pushed to 2000fps? At least make a 170gr Cu plated rated to 1800fps

 

[AJC1]

I tried a sampling of 30ct from Xtreme These were 150gr FP Cu plated with a manufacture speed limit of 1600 fps. So I used Blue Dot, this worked okay but there a notable POI shift from standard loads.
I have used Xtreme 123gr .311" Cu plated for 7.62x39 with a speed limit of 2000fps and those did very well with H-4198 in a SKS.
So I'm not sure why Xtreme did not offer the 150gr .309" with a plating that could be pushed to 2000fps? At least make a 170gr Cu plated rated to 1800fps

I haven't used them yet, but a speed limit of 1600 for extreme vs 2000 on berry's is a big deal. The 150 is one of the very few Barry's rated that high.

 

[joneb]

From Xtremes web site,
"This bullet was designed for use in the 30-30 Winchester and will not withstand the velocity and pressure of a standard load for .308 Win. We recommend keeping this at or below 1800 fps if loaded in .308 Win"
Maybe something has changed?

 

[AJC1]

From Xtremes web site,
"This bullet was designed for use in the 30-30 Winchester and will not withstand the velocity and pressure of a standard load for .308 Win. We recommend keeping this at or below 1800 fps if loaded in .308 Win"
Maybe something has changed?

I shoot cast in both 30-30 and 308. I only had one box of rhe berrys, with no initial intentions of getting more. I quickly found a good load with blue dot and made the same decision that they were a bad fit for a 308 based on velosity restrictions. I haven't measured the speed on the 150s out of my 94 so I don't know I'd I'm in the 1800-2000 fps window to make a difference. That hinges on the unknown that accuracy will be found at the same charge weight, a HUGE and inappropriate assumption.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I haven't used them yet, but a speed limit of 1600 for extreme vs 2000 on berry's is a big deal. The 150 is one of the very few Barry's rated that high.

I’m always skeptical about statements like these. The speedometer on my wife’s car goes up to 160MPH. It won’t go 160, or even 140 - maybe 130 downhill with a tail-wind - but the speedo says 160. I’m curious about the rifling and twist they’re using. Rotational inertia is typically what rips bullets apart and that’s a matter of spin, angular velocity, not forward motion.

 

[AJC1]

I’m always skeptical about statements like these. The speedometer on my wife’s car goes up to 160MPH. It won’t go 160, or even 140 - maybe 130 downhill with a tail-wind - but the speedo says 160. I’m curious about the rifling and twist they’re using. Rotational inertia is typically what rips bullets apart and that’s a matter of spin, angular velocity, not forward motion.

What do you believe is the benchmark? A 336 or 94 are by far the most common, so one of the two would make a reasonable choice as a standard. If they failed at the listed velosity in either platform I would place a wager they would either change the bullet (less likely) or chaing their limit(more likely) I'm even inclined to test that in my 94 after the move, because science.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I would think the berry's can be pushed faster in 1:10 twist bores. I run accura outdoors rifle bullets up to 3000 fps. In my 30.06. The owner told me they can be pushed that far. Also Galvin from ultimate re-loader runs the berry's .311 123 grain at higher speeds in 7.62x39. That being said. Thick plated bullets can be pushed with the right rate of twist.

 

[AJC1]

I would think the berry's can be pushed faster in 1:10 twist bores. I run accura outdoors rifle bullets up to 3000 fps. In my 30.06. The owner told me they can be pushed that far. Also Galvin from ultimate re-loader runs the berry's .311 123 grain at higher speeds in 7.62x39. That being said. Thick plated bullets can be pushed with the right rate of twist.

Bullet failure is more prone in higher twist rates, as exemplified by blowing up 88s and 90smks in 6.5 twist 223 barrels. If 1-12 being the 30-30 standard, that's slower than my 1-10.75 308 barrel. Just one more strike in trying the berry's in 308

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

What do you believe is the benchmark? A 336 or 94 are by far the most common, so one of the two would make a reasonable choice as a standard. If they failed at the listed velosity in either platform I would place a wager they would either change the bullet (less likely) or chaing their limit(more likely) I'm even inclined to test that in my 94 after the move, because science.

Good question. I’d say the “standard” is a 10” test barrel attached to a universal receiver. That’s what all of the testing labs use. That’s why I’m skeptical, though. If Berry’s doesn’t ‘t disclose the testing method, the rating is less than meaningful. That doesn’t mean it is meaningless, just not as meaningful.
If you get the difference.
Me, I consider the Contender 10” a good test platform. Anything I’ve run through it that was halfway accurate was pretty darned accurate in anything else I ran it through.

 

[AJC1]

Good question. I’d say the “standard” is a 10” test barrel attached to a universal receiver. That’s what all of the testing labs use. That’s why I’m skeptical, though. If Berry’s doesn’t ‘t disclose the testing method, the rating is less than meaningful. That doesn’t mean it is meaningless, just not as meaningful.
If you get the difference.
Me, I consider the Contender 10” a good test platform. Anything I’ve run through it that was halfway accurate was pretty darned accurate in anything else I ran it through.

That 10" standard definitely applies to hogden testing of a lot of things including 357???? It is a standard but basically non sensical for pistol or carbine. 4,6,16,or 20 would all be more useful to those not a lab technician