Bessie plays in the snow.

Ugly Sauce

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I took Bess out back, was snowing lightly, a bit of light rain mixed in. Still had a load in her from Elk season. So I popped that off and loaded up two more from the loading block. 140 grains 1fg, and a chewed ball with .023" patch. A full 50 yards and I didn't think she did half bad. My elevation was good, but she shot a little to the left, as you can see. I primed from the horn, and the ignition did seem a tad slower than 4fg, although that does not matter to me. It could take a minute and a half to go off, and my sights would still be holding on target.

She's a reliable musket, when I first got it, had a flash in the pan, or two, and one "clack" with no flash or fire, but since then I coned and enlarged the touch hole a tiny bit, lowered the floor of the pan, shimmed up my main spring and bent the cock a bit more to my liking. (yes, got it hot first) Since those mods, she's never miss fired or failed to fire.

Bessie says: "thanks for listening".
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I need a flintlock in my life...
Yes you do. Be sure to get a good one. Kind of enjoyed the slower ignition with the 1fg for prime. That 1fg does come in pretty big chunks. I have primed with it before, but not shooting carefully off the bench like today. But it was cool listening to the cock fall on the frizzen, and the frizz snapping forward just before the bang. Usually don't hear that. With my Jeager, I know a delay is there, but I can't detect any delay, just goes off like a modern gun, to my dull senses. The lock on that thing is fast. Really fast. Super fast. Crazy fast.
 
This has nothing to do with nothing, but the Kiblers have been selling like them there hot-cakes, I'm wondering when they will be hitting the market as used guns. I see/hear some guys talking "I'm starting on my third kit", "can't wait to get another" and stuff like that. (wish I had that cash-flow) So, I kind of wonder when some of those will be for sale, and for how much. ?
 
This has nothing to do with nothing, but the Kiblers have been selling like them there hot-cakes, I'm wondering when they will be hitting the market as used guns. I see/hear some guys talking "I'm starting on my third kit", "can't wait to get another" and stuff like that. (wish I had that cash-flow) So, I kind of wonder when some of those will be for sale, and for how much. ?

Probably not any time soon and due to the quality of the kits I expect most of them to go way over the purchase price. Depending on the build quality of course.
 
The trend I've seen is the builder may get slightly over the kit cost, this is true of the big production gun places like Traditions, Investarms, etc. If you watch Track of the Wolf and Gun broker it comes down to what the market will bear.
 
The trend I've seen is the builder may get slightly over the kit cost, this is true of the big production gun places like Traditions, Investarms, etc. If you watch Track of the Wolf and Gun broker it comes down to what the market will bear.

Maybe but those kits don't compare with a Kibler. Not in quality or historical accuracy. I doubt many of them will be put up for sale for a long time.
 
Yes you do. Be sure to get a good one. Kind of enjoyed the slower ignition with the 1fg for prime. That 1fg does come in pretty big chunks. I have primed with it before, but not shooting carefully off the bench like today. But it was cool listening to the cock fall on the frizzen, and the frizz snapping forward just before the bang. Usually don't hear that. With my Jeager, I know a delay is there, but I can't detect any delay, just goes off like a modern gun, to my dull senses. The lock on that thing is fast. Really fast. Super fast. Crazy fast.
I fired my first flintlock a few weeks ago, and it was pretty nifty. It was primed with 4F, though, and the pop/boom delay was pretty short. Accurate and fun.
 
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The trend I've seen is the builder may get slightly over the kit cost, this is true of the big production gun places like Traditions, Investarms, etc. If you watch Track of the Wolf and Gun broker it comes down to what the market will bear.
That's one thing I was kind of curious about, if people would price them over the cost of the kit, or if people would not pay more than the kit price. That sounds logical, but way back when you could get those "Yank" and "Reb" revolver kits, it was hard to sell them for more than the price of the "kit".

I suppose a lot depends on the quality of the build too, if the builder added some carving, wire inlay, etc.
 
Maybe but those kits don't compare with a Kibler. Not in quality or historical accuracy. I doubt many of them will be put up for sale for a long time.
Yeah, I guess it might not be until the current buyers croak, and they end up in an estate sale.
 
That's one thing I was kind of curious about, if people would price them over the cost of the kit, or if people would not pay more than the kit price. That sounds logical, but way back when you could get those "Yank" and "Reb" revolver kits, it was hard to sell them for more than the price of the "kit".

I suppose a lot depends on the quality of the build too, if the builder added some carving, wire inlay, etc.

The total price of a plain Woodsrunner kit is a little over 1,300.00 shipped. The others are about the same. The other kits require a good bit more work. Somebody that can really build a nice gun could easily expect to get 2,000.00 or more for one.
 
Sometimes you can find a dog at a pawn shop and have someone breathe life into them, like this percussion lefty I got for a song, and my buddy made into artwork.

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Now, not to derail any further, I would love to find something quite close to Ol' Bessy up there, looks about perfect. :)
 
Oh derail away, don't bother me. That is very nice, (to put it mildly) but I see he wasn't good enough to get the lock on the other side where it belongs. !!! :rofl:

Yes Bessy is about perfect, it was a Pedersoli "Kit", but really just "in the white" requiring some sanding, although I did do some lock tuning and put a rear sight on it. And hand rubbed in a bazillion coats of oil. It was my first flintlock long-gun, and my idea was to hunt everything with it. Which I did until I had to pass on a really nice bear because it was just a hair out of range, but an easy shot for a rifle. So, that's when I bit the bullet and had my Jeager made. Expensive at the time, but worth every cent. Now Bess takes care of the Turkeys, and Rosie the Jeager the four-legged big game. But Bess is still a great trekking gun, if something wants to scratch and bite me, and then eat me, (yuck!!) that big old round ball of hers on top of 140 grains of pixie dust will put a stop to that. So besides the Turks, she still gets out for some serious hikes up North.
 
The total price of a plain Woodsrunner kit is a little over 1,300.00 shipped. The others are about the same. The other kits require a good bit more work. Somebody that can really build a nice gun could easily expect to get 2,000.00 or more for one.
That's an interesting thing. That's what someone would have to pay, for a rifle of equal quality, before the Kiblers came along.
 
That's an interesting thing. That's what someone would have to pay, for a rifle of equal quality, before the Kiblers came along.

I dunno about equal quality. Yeah you can get a decent flintlock for that but a nicely built Kibler would be closer to a custom made gun from a master builder. It depends on the quality of the build. I couldn't get anywhere near that for mine but it should still shoot with the very best.
 
I dunno about equal quality. Yeah you can get a decent flintlock for that but a nicely built Kibler would be closer to a custom made gun from a master builder. It depends on the quality of the build. I couldn't get anywhere near that for mine but it should still shoot with the very best.
Truth. As I remember, when I was shopping for a rifle, that the rifle builder's rifles were around $2000.00 and up. And of course, something really fancy and made by a well known rifle smith could go up to $4-5000.00 bucks. Since my builder felt sorry for me, as I had tried to build a TOW "kit", (more like a chopped down tree and some iron ingots) and failed totally, I got quite a price break, and had to do some final finishing. Being a very plain-jane rifle also helped on cost, but, as far as quality it is second to none.

For sure, a really well built Kibler would be equal to what was once, not too long ago, a custom made rifle. I wonder if the master rifle builders are feeling the pinch, or if they have a completely different cliental.
 
Oh derail away, don't bother me. That is very nice, (to put it mildly) but I see he wasn't good enough to get the lock on the other side where it belongs. !!! :rofl:
Yep, Da Boy is one of those oddball lefties, which is why I bought it. ;)
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Now the funny thing is that I was talking to my buddy just this afternoon on the way in, and we were musing over how to do a flinter...
 
when I was shopping for a rifle, that the rifle builder's rifles were around $2000.00 and up. And of course, something really fancy and made by a well known rifle smith could go up to $4-5000.00 bucks.

How much money do you have to have to spend 5,000.00 on a custom rifle that will probably never be fired?
 
It's a lot like building fast cars, speed costs money, how fast do you wanna go? Checked on Gunbroker yesterday, a small handful of custom muzzleloaders there. Prices ranged from 1600.00 to really outrageous with no bids.
 
How much money do you have to have to spend 5,000.00 on a custom rifle that will probably never be fired?
Well, I can't relate to that, but I just happened to stumble on another a post on another forum, "just starting on my second Kibler kit". Some of these guys are getting kit after kit, which must be adding up fast. !!! $$$

Anyhow, my question would be, "how much better is a $5000.00 rifle than a $2000.00 rifle?" To my mind, maybe more "fancy", but it's not going to out-shoot the rifle of lesser cost, or be more reliable, or even bring more pleasure into one's life.

Or course, there are the money baggers who want to pay as much as possible, for the "prestige" whether it ever gets fired or just hangs on the wall, so that your guests can be impressed with how much money you have. Same with the cars they drive, or the motorcycles they have built, but hardly ever, if ever, ride.
 
Well, I can't relate to that, but I just happened to stumble on another a post on another forum, "just starting on my second Kibler kit". Some of these guys are getting kit after kit, which must be adding up fast. !!! $$$

The Kibler group on Facebook has a few like that but I think most of them shoot theirs.
 
All I know is the rifle I bought my son was priced at this.

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I bought it for much less than that. My gunsmith told me that kit, (a Kit Carson from the late 70s?), was probably a thousand dollars all the way back then, before Bubba did his worst, and boy, did he do his worst - did you see the trigger in the above photo?
As it is now, it's priceless.

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And I would hazard a guess that Bessie, no matter what her cost at birth, is pretty priceless, too. ;)
 
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