Best 1858 clone?

[Driftwood Johnson]

You talking about this one?

Howdy

No, he's talking about this one. What you have pictured is the 1858 Conversion model that comes set up to fire cartridges. These are 1858 Cap & Ball revolvers. The top one is a Stainless Uberti, the bottom one is an old EuroArms/Armi San Paolo that I bought back around 1975. If you look closely, both of these Remmies are wearing cartridge conversion cylinders. The Stainless Uberti came complete with the conversion cylinder when I bought it used some years ago, I bought the conversion cylinder for the older one a few years ago.

One other thing to notice is the front sight on my old EuroArms Remmie is taller than the original sight. Back in the 1970s these guns were imported with much lower front sights. That caused them to shoot pretty high. Before buying the conversion cylinder I had a smith mount a taller front sight from Uberti on the gun. He had to open up the dovetail in order to do so, but the taller sight brought the point of impact down where I wanted it.

Most Remmies today are being imported with a taller front sight pretty much like you see here.





Here is a view of just the old EuroArms with its conversion cylinder. Yes, the frame of the old EuroArms Remmie is slightly smaller than the Uberti, and it weighs a few ounces less. Regarding recoil, that was never a problem with the old EuroArms Remmie while shooting it Cap & Ball. It did become an issue when I started firing full house 45 Colt Black Powder loads with 250 grain bullets. The reason is the grip shape. There is less room between the rear of the trigger guard and the grip than on a Colt or colt clone, so with the stiff recoil from a heavy Black Powder load I was getting my middle finger banged pretty good. The answer for me was to shoot 45 Schofield ammo with only about 28 grains of FFg and a 200 grain bullet. That calmed down recoil enough that I was not getting my finger whacked anymore. But with 30 grains of FFg under a .451 lead ball, recoil was not a problem.





This is a view of the Armi San Paolo marking on the underside of the barrel, underneath the loading lever. It is a DGG in a circle. The company founders were Grassi, Doninelli, and Gazzola, that is what DGG stands for.





One other thing. This is an R&D cylinder marketed by Taylors. Since it was an old gun, I sent the gun to them to have the cylinder fitted, a service that Taylors performs for free by the way. When I spoke to the gunsmith at Taylors he told me he had fitted a cylinder for a Pietta to the revolver, not an Uberti cylinder. There are slight dimensional differences and that is what he thought fit best.





Personally, I think the workmanship of my old EuroArms Remmie is better than the newer Uberti. I have no experience with a Pietta 1858 Remington, but a few years ago I cheaped out and bought a pair of Pietta 1860 army revolvers. I was disappointed in the workmanship and should have spent the extra money on a pair of Ubertis.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[whughett]

Oh my. Instant woody. Gun porn.

 

[Crawdad1]

Best 1858 clone?I've always wanted one and with Obama new bans I want to get one while I can.

I would go with either the Uberti or Pietta as you can buy the drop in conversion cylinders for them which makes the revolver extremely useful. I like the Uberti they just seem tighter, better made, but to each is own.


Here is my Uberti 58 Remington (I subsequently sold it) with its forge frame and dovetailed front sight.

Here it is with its conversion cylinder shooting 200 grain 45 Long Colts at 25 yards, barrel resting on sandbags. This was shot right out of the box I got the revolver that day and went target shooting.

 

[4v50 Gary]

I like [email protected]'s loading gate Rem. The Kirst is closer to my budget though.

 

[Indian Outlaw]

The Spanish-made Santa Barbara Remington was the best of the lot back in the day. But, alas, they are no longer made. The old Lyman Ubertis from the early 1970's were arguably the best Remingtons that Uberti ever produced. (Lyman also imported Remingtons from Armi San Paolo.) The current Uberti has a forged frame, which is good, but the fit is not quite to the level of the old Lymans. Nevertheless, Ubertis are still well made and are still a tad better than current-production Piettas. To Pietta's credit, they have improved their guns a lot from the junk they used to make.

 

[Indian Outlaw]

I always liked that antiqued Uberti that you had, Crawdad1.

 

[Crawdad1]

I agree Indian Outlaw those old Lyman Ubertis were excellent Remingtons.

Thank You Sir!!! That was from Taylor's & Company and what a shooter it was!!!!

I just can't see that slender front sight or I would still own it.

 

[Indian Outlaw]

I agree Indian Outlaw those old Lyman Ubertis were excellent Remingtons.

Thank You Sir!!! That was from Taylor's & Company and what a shooter it was!!!!

I just can't see that slender front sight or I would still own it.

Did you replace the mainspring in that gun with a lighter one, for use with that conversion cylinder? Or did you simply loosen the spring tension screw? Or neither? I am worried about the hammer and/or the cylinder's firing pins being deformed from the hard impact that the stock spring will produce.

 

[Crawdad1]

I received it in the morning and then gutted, cleaned and oiled it then put it back together and went shooting. The action was buttery smooth from the get go and I didn't notice a hard main spring pull on it. I made sure the screw was flush but I just can't recall whether I tensioned it or not.

 

[Panzerschwein]

OP, if you want the best, get a Pedersoli.

You will pay for it though.

 

[One Shot]

Pedersoli

The Pedersoli is made in their custom shop. It has very tight tolerances. It is used at an international level competitors. But you pay extra for this as you would for anything else coming out of a maker's custom shop. I have shot them and they are very accurate.

 

[TruthTellers]

Pietta and Uberti represent the best bang for your buck. Everybody says Pedersoli is the best and they may be, but are unnecessary for the casual shooter/plinker.

The pervasive belief for decades has been that Uberti's quality is better than Pietta, but for people to continue to spew that 1990's view of things just shows how out of touch and how old that thinking is. I have a Pietta; it's great and leaves me with nothing more to be desired.

I have nothing against Uberti, but their prices are higher and while I haven't owned a Uberti, I'm not seeing where the extra $120+ of value is being put in compared to a Pietta especially when the Uberti name doesn't guarantee 100% performance. Back in the day Pietta was apparently well known for low quality and bad fits and finishes, but that train of thought is just so so old it doesn't hold basis anymore. From all I have read from owners of new Pietta's, especially 58's, and from the Pietta I bought last year that runs like a charm for only $220, it's not true.

It's 2016 folks, times have changed.

 

[Panzerschwein]

The Uberti 1858s have the correct dimensions to the frame and grip. They are also forged guns. The Pietta 1858s, while not bad, have a larger bulkier frame that doesn't balance like an original.

They are cheaper though.

 

[TruthTellers]

The Uberti 1858s have the correct dimensions to the frame and grip. They are also forged guns. The Pietta 1858s, while not bad, have a larger bulkier frame that doesn't balance like an original.

They are cheaper though.

I can understand a person's desire to get the most accurate grip shape or have a slightly smaller size, but I don't think it affects the overall quality of a black powder revolver because they're already big and nobody is concealed carrying them.

A forged frame is always nice, but not necessary.

To each his own.

 

[midland man]

and just like brass revolvers I like them they work fine for me and I don't run hot loads either no need for it!! thanks, pietta!