Best beam scale for tiny charges? (.25 acp)

[Shivahasagun]

I've only used my Lee beam scale.

I tried a little digital one but those aren't the way to go.

I'd like something that accurately measures tiny charges for .25 acp. I did make a couple dippers (1.0 gr Titegroup and 1.1 gr 700x) that have been working out but I want to make a one or two closer to max and with more consistency for my Beretta's.

Perhaps there is a bigger or more accurate scale more conducive to these little charges?

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Take a look here: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...01-a-look-at-the-tried-and-true.875760/page-2
See post #37 and @1066 comments going forward for a good discussion of the Lee scale. Other than seeming a little cheezy with it's red plastic body and big numbers, it's actually been one of the more accurate beam scales to be found. If Dial-O-Grain and/or Dial-O-Gram scales were still to be found for less than a Banker's ransom, that might be a better scale overall but I'm not sold entirely on the idea that one or the other would be more "accurate" (meaning repeatability) with smaller weights.
IIRC in his discussion of digital scales @LiveLife also gave some good information on beam scales. Not sure which thread though. Hopefully he'll chime in shortly now that I've put up the Bat signal.

 

[mdi]

Just my experience; My RCBS 5-10, Lyman/Ohaus D5 and my Lee Safety Scale can weigh powder charges of 1.0 grains consistently. Just keep them clean, set up/zero correctly and they are OK, but I double check many small charges. I've tried 3 digital scales, two designated "reloading scale" but I won't trust them with small loads with a very small "range"...

 

[Howa 9700]

How much powder does a .22 short or CB cap case hold? It may be easier to calibrate some type of small dipper for a production run. At least once you get it calibrated to the charge you want.

I just finished loading a box of buckshot, and used a LEE dipper to do it. Went remarkably fast.

 

[1066]

I've only used my Lee beam scale.

I tried a little digital one but those aren't the way to go.

I'd like something that accurately measures tiny charges for .25 acp. I did make a couple dippers (1.0 gr Titegroup and 1.1 gr 700x) that have been working out but I want to make a one or two closer to max and with more consistency for my Beretta's.

Perhaps there is a bigger or more accurate scale more conducive to these little charges?

I feel your pain - Many moons ago, back in the 1980's in fact, I was quite involved with Olympic style precision pistol shooting. At the time there was a move from the larger calibres like the S&W52 and .38spec revolvers to the .32 S&W Long. These .32's were all straight blowback semi-autos chambered for the full wadcutters, Walthers, Hammerli, FAS, Pardini etc. and accurate loads with 100% reliability were necessary. I struggled with various measures and even with custom made inserts etc. and never found them consistent enough for the little charges required. If you were aiming for 1.4 gn of bullseye, a tenth of a grain either side wasn't good enough.
I found the only way to get consistent loads was to weigh each one - needing to load up a couple of hundred a week was brain numbing. (This is when I developed the Targetmaster auto-trickler)

Almost any of the better quality scales will be accurate enough for your purpose, as long as it repeats reliably. Something like an RCBS 502, if working as it should, will easily indicate within a tenth of a grain - one of the main problems is parallax error when viewing the scale. This can be overcome by using a simple webcam or even your phone camera.

 

[AJC1]

I don't load that low but if I did I'd be looking at medical milligram scales.

 

[Blue68f100]

That low load is the reason I bought my GemPro 250 decades ago. When you have a min to max that is the full range tolerance of your scales, you need to upgrade to something that has more accuracy. Unfortunately the GP250 has been discontinued many years ago. But there are some newer scales with the accuracy your looking for but they are not cheap. You have to pay for precision.

 

[Chuck R.]

I've got an older RCBS 10-10 that when on camera at 3X will show the effect of a kernel of Varget:





It combined with a Little Dandy powder trickler can weigh some pretty light loads.

 

[Ovendoctor]

I am finding the same issue with loading 38 S&W
1.7 gr of red dot is a beam scale job and powder trickeler
only good thing is its for the ''pig popper''
used in processing pork
dont need many rounds

Mike

 

[film495]

I don't see why any decent beam scale that measures down to .1 grain or lower would not do this correctly. If you wanted to really nail it, maybe once you know your charge weight, just use a less elaborate beam, that is just a balance beam. Get the check or standard weight exact - and then you're just matching 1:1 ... I've used a digital scale to load .32 ACP and it is a hassle and does not work very well IMHO. I'm not going to load that cartridge much, so - not going to spend any time on it, but - if I was I'd consider something like what I'm describing. Something that works, that is as low tech as possible.

 

[jmorris]

I have to start off by saying, manufacturers use volume thrown charges, they don’t have teams of humans trickling charges to keep up with machines that load 1000’s/hr. This includes .22’s, .25’s and other tiny charged cases.

That said, if you use a sensor to detect beam movement your eye can’t detect, they can be quite sensitive.



That kernel and these are ~ .02 gn, this one has the sensor running a trickler with a gear motor.



and in conjunction with a measure dropping most of the charge.



You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to throw it together either.

 

[JFrank]

For those tiny charges I would look for a Lyman D-5 in really good condition.
Excellent scales.

 

[sparkyv]

Because the Lee has a more narrow range of 100 gr, it will tend to be more accurate at the lower range than other beam scales with broader (505 gr +) ranges. The Lee is actually a very good balance, but has a few quirks.

 

[mdi]

Yep, whenever this topic comes up, some will talk about volume vs weight. I don't have a solid opinion either way but in the few decades I've been reloading I cannot remember a reloading manual that didn't report powder charges in weight; grains and tenths of grains...

 

[1066]

Further to my previous post - I currently have a most unusual target pistol that uses very small loads - This is a Zylab Patriot .32, five shot muzzle loader that uses about 1.2 grains with a 98gn wadcutter. The "magazines" are loaded off the pistol with the press designed for the job. The powder is dispensed with the little slide measure. The dispensed charge is really quite consistent if, as with any measure, you use a consistent technique. My competing days are well over, I just shoot this for fun now and quite happy with the accuracy provided by the measure - If I was serious about it I would probably go back to weighing.

 

[LiveLife]

Gentle people of THR H&R subcategory, OP is talking about very small powder charges of 1.5 to 1.7 gr where .2 to .3 gr are start/max charges. For these very small charges, OP will likely have to weigh the powder charges.

Even my modified PAD would only consistently meter W231/HP-38 down to 2.0 gr and I would not attempt to meter 1.5-1.7 gr charges from C-H/Redding measures - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/working-diy-micro-auto-disk.741988/#post-9318360

in his discussion of digital scales @LiveLife also gave some good information on beam scales.

Hopefully he'll chime in

I have waited a bit to see other members' responses but looks like I need to clarify few things again. From various myth busting threads on digital scales, we learned that while beam scales are capable of .1 gr resolution ONLY if not damaged, properly maintained and agate stone bearings/knive edges are clean; some digital scales (even cheaper $20 ones) can have higher resolution below .1 gr (.06 - .08 gr) but ONLY if not damaged, operate within 59F-95F, batteries are not drained and not near electro/magnetic fields.

 

[LiveLife]

I've only used my Lee beam scale

... I'd like something that accurately measures tiny charges for .25 acp ... Perhaps there is a bigger or more accurate scale more conducive to these little charges?

Actually Lee beam scale has higher resolution than .1 gr and expresses similar detection as my USA made Ohaus 10-10/RCBS 5-0-5 and is very accurate but it is slower ... So I understand your sentiment.

But regardless beam or digital, as long as the scale can consistently verify check weights in the 0.5 gr to 1.5 gr range, it should be suitable to verify around 1.5 gr powder charges you are looking to work with.

While I used to recommend Dillon Eliminator beam scale (Made in USA by Ohaus to 5-0-5 specs) but it is no longer made and Ohaus 5-0-5 is now made in China and costs $79 - https://www.amazon.com/OHAUS-303932...075VY8ZYB/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

So if you want a USA made beam scale, your option is to buy used on ebay (Not the new white Ohaus 5-0-5 but older beige Ohaus and green RCBS) - https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nk...55-0&campid=5336728181&customid=&toolid=10001

Not sure what your budget is but may also consider 10-10 and M5 scales. Of course buying used, especially online, means not being able to check out the scale in person and verify with check weights (Perhaps you can request seller verify some lighter check weights in 0.5, 1.0, 1.5 gr range before purchase).

I tried a little digital one but those aren't the way to go

Actually from various digital scale myth busting threads, certain digital scales (Even cheaper ones) are suitable for reloading as they have highter than .1 gr resolution, greater sensitivity and cost less - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...tal-scale-accuracy.759750/page-4#post-9591790

 

[Ironicaintit]

For those tiny charges I would look for a Lyman D-5 in really good condition.
Excellent scales.

I'll 2nd the D-5.
Once it's level and the zero is set, it's always spot on at whichever weight I'm aiming for (check weight verified)
It's helped me turn out a bunch of 380acp, which also has a real small min-max spread.
Under a magnifying glass, you can see it adjust to a single kernel of Unique.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Actually Lee beam scale has higher resolution than .1 gr and expresses similar detection as my USA made Ohaus 10-10/RCBS 5-0-5 and is very accurate but it is slower ... So I understand your sentiment.

But regardless beam or digital, as long as the scale can consistently verify check weights in the 0.5 gr to 1.5 gr range, it should be suitable to verify around 1.5 gr powder charges you are looking to work with.

While I used to recommend Dillon Eliminator beam scale (Made in USA by Ohaus to 5-0-5 specs) but it is no longer made and Ohaus 5-0-5 is now made in China and costs $79 - https://www.amazon.com/OHAUS-303932...075VY8ZYB/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

So if you want a USA made beam scale, your option is to buy used on ebay (Not the new white Ohaus 5-0-5 but older beige Ohaus and green RCBS) - https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nk...55-0&campid=5336728181&customid=&toolid=10001

Not sure what your budget is but may also consider 10-10 and M5 scales. Of course buying used, especially online, means not being able to check out the scale in person and verify with check weights (Perhaps you can request seller verify some lighter check weights in 0.5, 1.0, 1.5 gr range before purchase).


Actually from various digital scale myth busting threads, certain digital scales (Even cheaper ones) are suitable for reloading as they have highter than .1 gr resolution, greater sensitivity and cost less - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...tal-scale-accuracy.759750/page-4#post-9591790

Excellent. Thanks. Might be a good idea to update the sticky in the Wisdom thread from time-to-time with availability and changes?

Knew you'd chime in if the Bat signal went up.

 

[Yankee1986]

While I used to recommend Dillon Eliminator beam scale (Made in USA by Ohaus to 5-0-5 specs) but it is no longer made

Is this the good Dillon?

one of the main problems is parallax error when viewing the scale. This can be overcome by using a simple webcam or even your phone camera.

I can't believe I never thought about trying this.
Much easier to see it now.
Thank you!

 

[Big Wes]

Is this the good Dillon?
View attachment 1108970




I can't believe I never thought about trying this.
Much easier to see it now.
Thank you!
View attachment 1108971

That's one of the scales I have.... I like it!

 

[1066]

As I've said before, I'm not a huge fan of the Lee scale - However it does have some very good design points. It is very sensitive, unfortunately the beam is just too short to see the movement and take full advantage it.

If you like experimenting - here's an easy mod - and not too expensive if you make a muck of it.


If you were to add a webcam/phone to this, once you had the required load set on the scale it should be very repeatable.

This is something I posted around 10 years ago:
Monitor Balance Beam with Magnified Image on SmartPhone « Daily Bulletin (accurateshooter.com)

 

[jcullen]

Find a RCBS 10-10 tuned by Scott Parker