Best budget defense/utility rifle?

[Gryffydd]

For instance I don't think a Mini-14 would be any more or less accurate than a Mini-30.

This is the one area where there are some potential inaccuracy due to the 7.62x39. The Mini-30 bore size has varied over the years, so there is a potential for extremely poor accuracy given a possible bullet/bore mismatch.

 

[Rshooter]

If you are willing to look at the 7.62x39 the SKS is the way to go. I would look for a good Russian with a clean bore. I believe the SKS is one of the most accurate commie guns made.

I also see nothing wrong with the mini-14. It is the gun people love to hate. Now it has been updated with a better barrel and some other refinements that make it much more accurate that the one I own. If you want one, get one and do not worry about what people say about it. Some of them have never even fired the gun and are just repeating what they heard somewhere else.

 

[Gryffydd]

I also see nothing wrong with the mini-14. It is the gun people love to hate. Now it has been updated with a better barrel and some other refinements that make it much more accurate that the one I own. If you want one, get one and do not worry about what people say about it.

+1 It's the Rodney Dangerfield of carbines. People don't like it because it doesn't shoot like a bolt varmint rifle. Given the new barrel and better sights and the availability of Ruger "Standard Capacity" magazines, it's becoming a better and better choice.
I'm not particularly concerned with whether it shoots 1 MOA or 3 when it's in a vice when I'll likely be shooting at 10" targets at 100-200 yards OFF HAND. Shootability is more important than bench accuracy for a rifle like this, IMHO.

 

[Ignition Override]

My old '90 Mini 14 operated without a single glitch after 1,000 rds.
This was using only Wolf/Silver Bear and with a wobbly polymer 30-rd. mag from Promag (bought in spring '08).

You can get a really good Russian SKS for about $400. My almost-mint Norinco cost $230 in spring '08 and only had one misfeed in 1,200 rounds.

 

[ArmedBear]

I like my Mini-14. Reliable as hell, and stainless/synthetic gives it more utility than most rifles IMO. Why deal with rust when technology fixed that YEARS AGO? Sometimes I really wonder why gun buyers get any "working gun" in anything but stainless (and yes it can be black, too). And I'm a "walnut and blue" guy.

The SKS isn't the deal it used to be. It's also a good deal heavier than the Mini. But I like the SKS.

The Saiga, unmodified, is a gawd-awful rifle, unbalanced, with no "pointability" to it. It may be cheap and reliable, but it's awful. Turn it into an AK and it becomes a lot more tractable (though I'm no big fan of AK ergos).

Nobody's mentioned the Kel-Tec SU-16. I think it deserves a serious look, especially the shorter versions.

 

[deputy tom]

I'd be fine with the Marlin I already have a pre-64 Winchester though.

You've already answered your question in post # 11.tom.

 

[xstuntman]

Mosin Nagants are currently running $80-100. Cheap rifle thats built to go another 75 years. Ammo is 800 rounds of 147 grain surp for $180 delivered to my door. Power is between 308 and a 30-06. SHTF rifle of all time for sure plus a piece of history X

 

[cleetus03]

^

The MN certainly held it's own in WWII in a defensive situation but in reality they used a great offense as their defense at Stalingrad.

Walter Oakley, not discrediting the mighty Mosin Nagant, but don't forget about the infamous Pah-Pah-Shaw aka Burp gun aka PPSh-41 SMG and its service through the battle of Stalingrad! The gun had a 71rd mag and soldiers likened it to a waterhose as the rate of fire was 900rpm. This thing was widely used and most definitely effective in close quarters combat seen within the urban atmosphere of Stalingrad!

Vassili Zaitsev. The Russian sniper who is credited with 242 kills in the Battle of Stalingrad, he did as much work with his PPSh-41 submachine gun and hand grenades as with his Mosin Nagant rifle.

Picture of Soviet soldier with a "SN-42" armor vest strapped onto him, chillin with his pah-pah-shaw while his comrade rocks the flamethrower during the battle.



We can get back on topic now, sorry for the sidetrack.......well actually it could be relevant in the fact that a surplus fully-auto PPSh-41 with a drum mag would be perfect for the OP!.......just jk

 

[MikePaiN]

I built a "budget utility\defense rifle" last month. Based on the Kel-Tec SU-16A...this rifle is awesome for utility\shtf....fold-able stock, deploy-able bipod, mag. storage, 5.65mm spec chambering, uses standard AR mags., clean gas piston operation, light weight(4.5lbs), crisp trigger...most importantly, its completely reliable and accurate...
beat this
-SU-16A, $450(off GB) + $30 s&h + $35ffl
-Vortex Strikefire optic, $160
-(3)Magpul 20r Pmags, $65
-sling mounts, $15
-BC Alaskan Magnum sling, $10
total: $765

here's the thread I made on it
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=457326

 

[KenWP]

Not much use for a mag thats more then 5 rounds anyways as far as I can see. In a defensive situation all you have to do is fire one round off into the ground and the problem is solved. These 30 round clips and such make no sense unless your a spray and pray guy but what normal person in his right mind would actually shoot off a round in a urban setting straight at somebody with his first round anyways. Walls don't stop many of the jacketed bullets and even soft points go thru a lot of walls before they stop.

 

[ace88]

I'm finally looking at getting rifle. As of now I've stuck to the realm of pistols and shotguns primarily because of price. I believe AR-15's to be EXTREMELY nice and they shoot amazing but I feel they're overpriced. I do NOT like the 7.62x39 cartridge at all due to accuracy issues and it just jostles a lot. Follow-up shots are nowhere near as good as the .223's imo. With that much recoil I'd just go full-bore and get an FAL or one of the new Kel-Tec PTR guns.

Well if you have decided that you want a semi-auto 5.56, and you also want it to be accurate, then you would pay a little more and get an AR. The mini14 is not know for it's great accuracy. Maybe it's accuracy could be compared to an SKS. The mini14 is more expensive than an SKS. The terminal performance of 7.62x39 is much better than 5.56. 5.56 is a .22 caliber and in many states it's too small to legally hunt deer with. In a defensive situation, I would rather have a .30 caliber than a .22 caliber.

 

[benEzra]

Not much use for a mag thats more then 5 rounds anyways as far as I can see. In a defensive situation all you have to do is fire one round off into the ground and the problem is solved.

I realize that this may simply be a reflection of what's available in the USA vs. what's readily available in Canada, but if one felt that one shot fired into the ground would immediately stop a violent attack and obviate the need for a typical-sized magazine, then one wouldn't really need a magazine at all, if that logic is taken to its conclusion. Just load that one round if you feel that way.

For me, I'll keep the 20-rounder. There is no penalty for leaving unfired ammunition in the magazine, but there is a huge penalty for running out of ammunition too soon.

These 30 round clips and such make no sense unless your a spray and pray guy

I use 20 and 30 round magazines and am not a "spray and pray guy." Again, there is no penalty for leaving unfired ammunition in the magazine.

but what normal person in his right mind would actually shoot off a round in a urban setting straight at somebody with his first round anyways.

If you're not justified shooting the attacker, you're likely not justified in shooting period (at least in most U.S. jurisdictions). If you have the luxury of shooting at the ground, you are probably not in imminent danger of death or serious bodily harm.

Walls don't stop many of the jacketed bullets and even soft points go thru a lot of walls before they stop.

A single wall won't stop handgun rounds or shotgun buckshot, either. Having said that, properly selected jacketed hollowpoints in small-caliber centerfire rifles typically penetrate less in building materials and gelatin than handgun rounds do.

 

[mgkdrgn]

He already commented on post #11 he had a Winchester 30-30.

I am assuming like me the OP already has a pump, bolt-action, and lever rifle, and is looking for a "budget defense/utility" high capacity semiautomatic to complete the arsenal.

Well, thats what I get for not reading the entire thread, eh?

Hows about a Glock Mag using KelTek Sub 2K? Combine that with a 30 round Glock mag and now you have some capacity.

 

[ArmedBear]

I use 20 and 30 round magazines and am not a "spray and pray guy." Again, there is no penalty for leaving unfired ammunition in the magazine.

Agreed.

I have 14 rounds in my nightstand gun. That's so I don't have to worry about reloading the thing, not because I plan to hose down my walls with .45 slugs.

In fact, I'm a revolver guy, generally. The only reason I own that GUN is so I don't have to worry about reloading the thing.

As for the Mosin -- when will the Mosinheads just give it up? I mean, seriously. I'd rather have a lever gun; at least I wouldn't have to fight the action to chamber another round. The Mosin can be a cool toy, I guess (I sold one of mine and the other I've never degreased), but it's a gun designed for 19th Century Napoleonic warfare. The lever gun was designed for a lot of what we still consider "utility" -- that's why it's still being produced.

But as I posted before, and as MikePaiN detailed fully, check out the SU-16.

 

[cpirtle]

Not much use for a mag thats more then 5 rounds anyways as far as I can see. In a defensive situation all you have to do is fire one round off into the ground and the problem is solved. These 30 round clips and such make no sense unless your a spray and pray guy but what normal person in his right mind would actually shoot off a round in a urban setting straight at somebody with his first round anyways. Walls don't stop many of the jacketed bullets and even soft points go thru a lot of walls before they stop.

I just can't relate to this thought process as it is exactly what the gun banners in this country have used against us for years to whittle away at our rights.

In a home defense scenario you may only have time to shoot one shot and in my house it sure as hell would not go into the ground. Many states in the USA have a "Castle Doctrine" or modified version of one. If someone is in your house you are justified in the use of deadly force.

So you would rather fire a shot into the ground and then be attacked by a meth-head because you wasted the only shot you had time for thinking it would deter him - good work.

Same mentality for the people who think that just racking a shotgun is enough to make someone run... good luck with that strategy.

 

[ArmedBear]

So, cpirtle, you're suggesting that a warning shot to center mass is going to get the point across better?

 

[AcceptableUserName]

I do have a lever, a pump shotgun, but no bolt action. I'm going to pick up an old Savage 110 sooner or later. I'm hoping to find a high-cap defense rifle that'll also take small to moderate sized game. With the right ammo I'd feel okay taking a deer in a survival scenario. Granted, it's not really standard practice but I wouldn't shy away from it if need be. I also want something that'll last a long, long time. I'm leaning towards either a nice AR type weapon such as LWRC or Sig 556 (just have to save longer I guess that's the reality of it) Or a Mini 14. How would I have to outfit my gun for maximum longevity? I don't want a gun that'll be shot out in 1,000 rounds. Is that just the reality of a rifle because of the velocities they push? Or can I build an AR or modify a Mini with a certain type of barrel/upper that will last forever if cared for?


As one of the above posters stated, I'm not really concerned with match-grade accuracy. I don't know why I mentioned that in my dislike for the 762x39. It's a more a matter of AK and SKS ergonomics and the snappy recoil that I don't care for. I want something that'll take 20 rd mags, sling a lot of lead, and be durable and reliable doing it.

 

[Gunther]

I bought my SP-1 AR-15 in 1979 and the CAR 15 several years later and they both are as good shooters as the day I bought them. Hows that for longevity!

 

[mgkdrgn]

In a defensive situation all you have to do is fire one round off into the ground and the problem is solved.

Ya, right. Lots and lots of people being attacked by the ground.

Might I interest you in some Ocean Front property in Nevada?

 

[ArmedBear]

I have nice 45 year old hardwood floors. I'm not shooting a bullet through them.

 

[22-rimfire]

Mini 14, SKS, and Mossin Nagant are the three that come to mind. A Marlin 194 in 357 mag would not be a bad choice especially if you have 357 mag revolvers.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

I don't have a picture because I sold it to a friend, but I did up a nice Ishapore SMLE .308 that had as 12rd magazine, 18" barrel, cut down forearm, and forward mount scout scope (Simmons 2x Pistol scope). It handled beautifully, was nicely balanced, and cost under $400 with the gunsmithing (barrel cut & Crown, and scope base mounting). I had a .308/.32ACP subcaliber converter that allowed shooting the .32 round, for small game or quiet plinking. That rifle would probably do just about anything a rifle costing 5 times as much would do.

 

[cpirtle]

So, cpirtle, you're suggesting that a warning shot to center mass is going to get the point across better?

Yeah, I'm not much for talking so around here that's what we call a "non-verbal warning"..

 

[WVleo]

Home Defense carbine

Hi, I got a Bubba'ed mint Sino-Soviet sks and built it into this for a home defense carbine. I have less than $400 into it even after buying enough parts to make it 922r compliant . Tapco 20 round mags work great and after doing a mod to the bolt they can be loaded with the bolt closed. Now only if ammo would go back down to 1990's prices LOL LOL !.......WVleo