Best gun in the US

[Oldnamvet]

Shotguns have a lot in common with jewelry. Many people have a watch that they wear hunting and a different one they wear with their suit when going out. Both give you the accurate time but one also looks good on you and you appreciate the art and style. It is the same with shotguns. You could have two that you were equally good with, yet they are used for totally different purposes...one in the field and one at the trap range. It looks better on you. And who says we are not fashion conscious?

 

[Pro_Gun]

870 WingMaster

I almost sold it. Had it for a long time. Think I'll keep it. Always goes bang.

 

[MCgunner]

When it was the most accurate production watch you could buy, it made sense. However, now that you can get the same accuracy from a watch that costs $5.95, the workmanship that goes into a Rolex is merely quaint and interesting.

Hell, I wait for 'em to go on sale for three bucks at Wallyworld. :banghead:

Seriously, though, I see your point, but a Rolex isn't a time piece, it's expensive jewelry and therefore of course it's ostentatious, it's meant to be. It's the same reason women wear diamonds and gold. But, it's mechanical, so it appeals to men.

A shotgun is purposeful. No, it's not jewelry. It is to be used. But, an expensive hand fitted shotgun WILL do the job better than an off the rack, just the way it is. If it also happens to be beautiful, hey, I ain't complainin'! I have an off the rack budget, but I do appreciate a fine shotgun even if I can't afford one.

 

[Dave McCracken]

One fo the things I like about PGC is the equality. The next guy on the line might be shooting a Parker A-1 Special or a pawnshop Stevens Single shot. Not many people care which, though pretty guns get admired.

"Best" is as slippery a term as "Is" to a press secretary. If we talk about engraving and marblecake walnut, the best may pack a name like Fabbri or Purdey. If we talk about unswerving service and comfort while competing, the names could be Alferman or Blaser.

And if we talk about shotguns we can HIT with as best, it could be any of the above, including that Stevens. or an 870, 500, 37 etc....

Best is what YOU want it to be....

 

[Michael Zeleny]

non sequitur alert

A shotgun is purposeful. No, it's not jewelry. It is to be used.

All guns are purposeful. At the same time, most guns are jewelry. In fact, they number among the few kinds of ornamental pieces socially acceptable in Western societies for decorating heterosexual men.

 

[Michael Zeleny]

"Best" is as slippery a term as "Is" to a press secretary.

True enough. But in the context of shotguns, "best gun" is a well understood term of art. Here is a representative passage from E.J. Churchill Gunmakers:

"The best gun owes most of its quality to hidden excellence. Fine engraving, which is innocently believed to be its one distinguishing quality, is but a minor item from a cost point of view. The major items are difficult to explain to those who have not experienced their benefits. Alternative grades are much like the best as they can be, made at the price; But a moment's consideration will make it clear the devotion of unlimited attention to detail by the best class of workman must make differences in functioning quality."
These were the words of Robert Churchill in the introduction to the 1922 E.J. Churchill catalogue.

 

[PJR]

Sure, but would you look at a pump gun FOR $10,000?

I might depending on the gun. A Winchester Model 12 28 gauge depending on grade and condition would command that price.

I didn't mean that guys with those expensive Italian guns with failure-prone inertia triggers, or the fancied-up German clones of old Remingtons, never look at pumps for duck hunting or other dirty tasks. They just don't like being seen with pumps at the gun club.

You must hang out with a more elite crowd than me. I don't mind mind being seen at the club with any gun, o/u, sxs, semi or pump.

I don't own a Rolex either. Omega is much better value. It keeps times as accurately as my Timex.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Mike, I'm well aware of how the Brits do best. Great marketing ploy. I was pointing out how slippery the term can be.

At this point in time, I've shot maybe a half dozen Purdeys, some H&Hs, a Grant,a Woodward, etc. All were pretty but I shot them about as well as I do my 870s.

Paul. two Ithaca 37s with full coverage ebgraving, gold inlays and superb wood that were made for President Eisenhower were offered for sale a couple years back. IIRC, $42K.

 

[Windy Ridge]

The observation on the 687 Beretta is very true, as you go up in embelishment you go up in price. In 1920 a Parker VHE grade ( lowest ) was the same gun as a AAHE grade (highest ). The same is true today in Most double barrels either SXS or O/U. There is a slight differance in repeaters. The theory goes like this: If a set of tooling will make 100 guns the first 15 will be built as Target guns, skeet,trap and sporting. The next 50 will go as standard or upper grade field guns sold threw regular channels and the last 35 will go as discount or sale guns. The theory holds that the Target guns will see a higher rate of fire ( 2 flats a month ?) the standard 1 or 2 flats a year and the discount guns 1 to 3 boxes a year. The owners of all of these guns will be happy and have few problems because of rate of fire.
As far as showing up with a repeater I'm as likely to show up at the shoot with my M-12 as my Beretta or Browning Clays gun. They all fit the same and its worth the look on my friends face when you break your doubles with a pump. By the way Cabela's had a Angelo Bee engraved M-12 Trap gun for $11500.00 it sold in 10 days I suppose the new owner will be ashamed to show it to the guys at the next trap shoot.

 

[MCgunner]

As much as I like my pump in the marsh, it really doesn't have any class, LOL! This is all just personal perception, but to me an auto is a step up the class ladder, then there's the O/U, then if you REALLY have class, there's the English stocked side-by-side. Single shots are for kids and serious trap shooters.

Stupid I suppose. My pump does a great job in the marsh. The only double I own is a beat up old side-by-side, but for some reason to me it has more class than my auto or pump. Go figure. Maybe it's my one concession to gun snobbery.

 

[Brian Williams]

It would be the 12 gauge single that my oldest brother has and never shot. It is an old gun with a ring inside of the triggerguard that breaks open the gun. It was my Grandpa's we called him Tide, it means grandfather in Welsh. I had it at one time and my brother said he looked at the gun for years, I was in the Marines and moving around, so I gave it to him. Kind of regret it but He is a good Big brother. May be I'll give him a call see if I can borrow it for a while.....

For me right now the best gun would have been a nice Ithaca 16 gauge double I saw at a local establishment recently, was $495, shoulda, woulda, coulda, but didn't.

 

[ArmedBear]

The observation on the 687 Beretta is very true, as you go up in embelishment you go up in price.

A couple of beefs with the big Italian B:

1. They dumped the "essential" or whatever they called their matte field gun. I guess they were competing with themselves. It was a great choice, though, since you could get a wonderful O/U without paying for "art" you didn't want.

2. If you want a factory straight grip, you have to pay for a lot of gaudy decoration. For me, a straight grip is strictly a practical option for upland carry, which means I want it on a field gun, not a wallhanger. It's dirty and brushy here, and you often end up putting your gun in a thornbush to look for birds or water the brush. Southwestern quail hunting is no place for a highly-embellished gun -- not to mention that I think over-embellishment isn't always attractive.

But they make a great gun.

 

[farscott]

In general, a Rolex is an expensive anachronism. I appreciate what goes into it, but the technology it employs is obsolete for its purpose.

When it was the most accurate production watch you could buy, it made sense. However, now that you can get the same accuracy from a watch that costs $5.95, the workmanship that goes into a Rolex is merely quaint and interesting.

In terms of tools, the Rolex, as addressed above, is obsolete. There are even other mechanical movements that perform better. However, Rolex still sells quite a few. Why? Some get sold due to the brand recognition. Still others get sold due to aesthetics. Some get sold just because. A few got sold to people who wanted more from a watch than just the time.

For example, I wear a GMT Master II. Why? Because I started my career working in laboratory that threw 10,000 watts of effective radiated RF power at automotive electronics. Even with 80dB of shielding, watches with quartz movements lasted days, if not hours. So my employer offered an allowance to purchase an accurate timepiece. I took my allowance and added some of my own money and bought my GMT Master II. That was almost twenty years ago, and it is the only watch I own. Could I have taken the watch allowance and purchased another watch for a fraction of the allowance? Absolutely. However, that other watch would have long been gone. What I appreciate about my watch goes beyond specifications and performance. The timepiece itself is art.

So it is with shotguns. In MY mind (and only mine), "best" requires something more than just doing the job well. It requires something which raises the tool to the level of art. While my 870s do the job -- and do it well -- I get the difference between them and my father's H&H Royal.

 

[Windy Ridge]

Big "B"

Armed bear I agree, the essential was a great gun at a good price, a better one was the next model with the 31/2" chambers. The barrels were heavier to take the stiff loads, the added weight made them swing great and they made great Clays Guns, unfortunatly also gone, the last replacement at about $1500. was I think called the pro hunter? It had that Really Ugly Extra-Wood and 31/2" chambers. Even though the essentials had walnut that would make a plank of Georgia Pine look fancy, I can not understand why anyone would put a decal over a stick of wood. The only benefit I can see is if your outboard quit and you had to use it as a paddle. I think the reason these guns are not made for long is that they don't make out well on them. Like cars and trucks the more options the more profit. A friends future brother-inlaw was an accountant for GM in the eary 80's when they made the Cadillac Cimeron and the Chevy Citation, both X platform cars it cost $600 more to make the Caddy with the same options as the Chevy the retail was about $8000 differance. Which one do you suppose they would rather sell? Get the consumer started with a good product and the next time maybe they will trade up. Look at the Remington 870, Express,BDL/CDL,Premier same Idea less money. Beretta 687-Essential-SP1-SP2-SP3-EL-EELL Same gun different trim.