best luber/sizer?
- Thread starter andrew17
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fecmech
Member
Andrew--Nothing wrong with the Lyman 450, I have 2 and one of those for over 35yrs. They work fine and nothing to really wear out. I just recently aquired a Star and I really like the speed on it cause it's straight thru so you only handle the bullet once. You can easily do 1000 to 1500 bullets per hour on the Star but they cost twice as much as the Lyman(about $250 with die and top punch). The Lyman or RCBS will do about 500 bullets per hour. All are good machines and do a good job. Nick
Thanks Nick, I've been leaning twards the Lyman as of right now.
They're calling it the 4500. I guess they got rid of the 450, upgraded redesigned whatever.
I'll mostly be using it for handgun bullets so the heater option seems good if I want to use some harder lube for magnum velocities.
They're calling it the 4500. I guess they got rid of the 450, upgraded redesigned whatever.
I'll mostly be using it for handgun bullets so the heater option seems good if I want to use some harder lube for magnum velocities.
calaverasslim
Member
andrew17 said:
RCBS, hands down. Saeco, Lyman and the rest of them are great tools, but I do like the Life Time warrenty RCBS has. In 1998, when my dad passed, I got a bunch of his stuff, including the RCBS Lubra-sizer. He had been using it since the late 60's or early mid 70's. Lot of bullets went thru it. It finally gave up about 2 years ago, so I sent it back to RCBS in Oroville, Ca. and less than 2 weeks later, I had a brand spanky new tool. Can't beat that ...
Sheldon
Member
I keep hearing the Star machine is the way to go as far as speed and ease go. On all the others you need to push the bullet into the sizer and then pull it out. With the Star unit you push it straight thru so you only handle it once. The Star machines are now being made by Magma Engineering (who make commercial casting machines) so parts are not a problem. You still see a the originals around...including Ebay. I have not started to cast bullets yet, but have been collecting everything needed. I went with a Star lubrisizer I got off Ebay after selling of an RCBS unit I got in a lot of used reloading gear I bought. I will get around to using it one of these days.
rbwillnj
Member
If your looking for the best, its the Star. Not only is it faster and less messy, but you can lube bullets with bevel bases without filling the bevel with lube. I have three Stars. My Lyman should be on ebay pretty soon. Not a bad machine, but no comparison to a Star.
JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone
Member
I started a similar post here:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=3679
The most recent Lyman 450 sold on Ebay this morning for near new price. It also had a couple of size dies I'm not interested in. But, if I could get one cheap, I think a 450/4500 might be a good start. If anyone has photos of the differences and can demonstrate the advantages of one or the other model/brand, I'd sure appreciate it.
-Steve
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=3679
The most recent Lyman 450 sold on Ebay this morning for near new price. It also had a couple of size dies I'm not interested in. But, if I could get one cheap, I think a 450/4500 might be a good start. If anyone has photos of the differences and can demonstrate the advantages of one or the other model/brand, I'd sure appreciate it.
-Steve
ReloaderFred
Member
I currently own and use a Lyman 450, Saeco, RCBS and four Star Lubrisizers. Each is used for a particular chore. The Star is by far the fastest, but it won't seat gaschecks, though some have tried, with limited success. Of the others, I like the Saeco best, primarily because of the side handle design and the ability to get size dies in .0005 increments for most popular calibers, so experimenting is easy with it and it will seat gas checks.
As for the difference between the Lyman 450 and the 4500, I believe they finally did away with the pressure screw through the bottom of the machine, which always ended up leaking when using high temp lubes and gets lube all over the place. I looked at one briefly and noticed that the base appeared solid, but I don't have one to compare with now.
With the Star machine, you use a flat push rod and run the bullets through the die upside down, so you're pushing on the base, instead of the nose of the bullet. This simplifies things because you don't need a different top punch for each bullet, like the other machines.
Sometimes it's hard to find a top punch that perfectly matches the bullet, though I have modified some by using a top punch from another shape and using epoxy to form to a bullet, after coating the bullet I use for the form with wax, so the epoxy won't stick to it. I chuck the top punch in my drill press, with a small amount of quick setting epoxy inside it, and the bullet on the flat drill press table and use the press to perfectly align the punch with the nose of the bullet. Of course the drill press isn't running when I do this, as it's only used to align the two parts. You also need to make sure the base of the bullet you use for the forming has a flat base.
You won't go wrong with any of the above machines. It all depends on your needs.
Hope this helps.
Fred
As for the difference between the Lyman 450 and the 4500, I believe they finally did away with the pressure screw through the bottom of the machine, which always ended up leaking when using high temp lubes and gets lube all over the place. I looked at one briefly and noticed that the base appeared solid, but I don't have one to compare with now.
With the Star machine, you use a flat push rod and run the bullets through the die upside down, so you're pushing on the base, instead of the nose of the bullet. This simplifies things because you don't need a different top punch for each bullet, like the other machines.
Sometimes it's hard to find a top punch that perfectly matches the bullet, though I have modified some by using a top punch from another shape and using epoxy to form to a bullet, after coating the bullet I use for the form with wax, so the epoxy won't stick to it. I chuck the top punch in my drill press, with a small amount of quick setting epoxy inside it, and the bullet on the flat drill press table and use the press to perfectly align the punch with the nose of the bullet. Of course the drill press isn't running when I do this, as it's only used to align the two parts. You also need to make sure the base of the bullet you use for the forming has a flat base.
You won't go wrong with any of the above machines. It all depends on your needs.
Hope this helps.
Fred
JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone
Member
Ok then, Of the sizers referenced, Is the Star the only one that pushes the bullet from the base of the bullet? I would think you'd always want to push/resize the bullet in what would be it's intended forward travel. From the base, nose first. Isn't this the case?
-Steve
-Steve
Lloyd Smale
Member
Ive used them all and the star is by far the best. Ive never had a problem seating gas checks with one.
Grump
Member
Another vote for the Star, if you're not doing gas checks. I suspect that the Hornady gas checks would work okay, since they are thicker at the top edge and crimp on...
The "in-'n-out" sizers push the bullet down base-first, pressure on the nose. When they bottom out, that tends to give the gas check a final push onto the base, keeping it square. Then, the reverse stroke on the handle lifts the bullet back up where you take it out and toss it in your box.
The suggestion for the Star is a non-standard approach that eliminates the need for multiple top punches. Never thought of it myself--that's embarassing... Every Star I've seen used a top punch shaped for the bullet nose and was used to drive the bullets in base-first, or in an upright orientation.
There's something about driving 10-20 bullets through a Star real fast and pausing only to re-tighten the lube drive and run a lubed bullet back through. That lubricates the first part of the sizing die, and keeps things going butter-smooth.
JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone said:
The "in-'n-out" sizers push the bullet down base-first, pressure on the nose. When they bottom out, that tends to give the gas check a final push onto the base, keeping it square. Then, the reverse stroke on the handle lifts the bullet back up where you take it out and toss it in your box.
The suggestion for the Star is a non-standard approach that eliminates the need for multiple top punches. Never thought of it myself--that's embarassing... Every Star I've seen used a top punch shaped for the bullet nose and was used to drive the bullets in base-first, or in an upright orientation.
There's something about driving 10-20 bullets through a Star real fast and pausing only to re-tighten the lube drive and run a lubed bullet back through. That lubricates the first part of the sizing die, and keeps things going butter-smooth.
rbwillnj
Member
I use Hornady Gas Checks with my Stars and have no problem at all.
All of the original Star top punches were designed to push the bullet through the die base first. They would make a top punch for whatever bullet nose you had.
Magma Engineering only makes flat top punches for sizing nose first. This way you really only need one nose punch to do everything.
I have sized both ways, and I see no difference. The only down side to Stars is the setup time, but I avoid that by keeping sizing die/nose punch sets for each bullet I do.
All of the original Star top punches were designed to push the bullet through the die base first. They would make a top punch for whatever bullet nose you had.
Magma Engineering only makes flat top punches for sizing nose first. This way you really only need one nose punch to do everything.
I have sized both ways, and I see no difference. The only down side to Stars is the setup time, but I avoid that by keeping sizing die/nose punch sets for each bullet I do.
ReloaderFred
Member
JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone,
In answer to your question, yes, the Star is the only available lubrisizer that pushes the bullet straight through the die. There have been others in the past, but they are no longer in production. Paul Jones came up with the idea for the flat post to push the bullet through the die nose first many years ago. Magma has since resurrected the idea and make the punches in .38/9mm and .45 size. I'm going to turn down one of the .45 size punches to 10mm because I shoot a lot of 10mm bullets and I like the punch to fit the base, for less deformation. I also have numerous original top punches, but they don't always fit the bullets I cast, so the flat punch is used the most for my bullet sizing.
The advantage to the Star is you only handle the bullet one time in sizing and lubricating. You place it in the top of the die and pull the handle. It's pushed through the die and lands in a container beneath the machine. In my case, it's a plastic Akrobin that I made a hanger for. Magma has also designed a "spade" handle for the Star machine, which is much superior to the simple wooden knob on the originals, but it's overpriced. I'm going to make a couple more for my other Star machines, rather than switching the one I have back and forth.
Hope this helps.
Fred
In answer to your question, yes, the Star is the only available lubrisizer that pushes the bullet straight through the die. There have been others in the past, but they are no longer in production. Paul Jones came up with the idea for the flat post to push the bullet through the die nose first many years ago. Magma has since resurrected the idea and make the punches in .38/9mm and .45 size. I'm going to turn down one of the .45 size punches to 10mm because I shoot a lot of 10mm bullets and I like the punch to fit the base, for less deformation. I also have numerous original top punches, but they don't always fit the bullets I cast, so the flat punch is used the most for my bullet sizing.
The advantage to the Star is you only handle the bullet one time in sizing and lubricating. You place it in the top of the die and pull the handle. It's pushed through the die and lands in a container beneath the machine. In my case, it's a plastic Akrobin that I made a hanger for. Magma has also designed a "spade" handle for the Star machine, which is much superior to the simple wooden knob on the originals, but it's overpriced. I'm going to make a couple more for my other Star machines, rather than switching the one I have back and forth.
Hope this helps.
Fred
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I think that I've owned them all.
I'd avoid the SAECO at all costs. Only SAECO product that I would not recommend. The unit's main gasket is a real problem.
Also I'd avoid the Star. Up until a month or two ago I would have said that the Star was the best unit out there BUT I've changed my mind. Magma makes them now and they aren't paying as much attention as they should. The screw threads needed to pull the guts out don't quite match the threads inside the rod used to grab this stuff. They just didn't bother to check to see if the two parts matched properly. THAT WAS A REAL DISAPPOINTMENT!
The new Lyman 4500 is excellent. One problem, however. Reall old sizing dies might not fit. Tolerances have been tightened up and that means that some old sizing dies just will not fit.
The RCBS unit is very good and does not seem to have the problem of older sizing dies not fitting.
One thing though. With both the RCBS and Lyman units you can get, from secondary sources, sizing dies with diameters so large that neither the RCBS nor Lyman units can easily get them out. A 0.575 die, for example, is made that will fit this style of unit. Trying to get it out of the machine, however, is, well, a REAL experience.
I'd avoid the SAECO at all costs. Only SAECO product that I would not recommend. The unit's main gasket is a real problem.
Also I'd avoid the Star. Up until a month or two ago I would have said that the Star was the best unit out there BUT I've changed my mind. Magma makes them now and they aren't paying as much attention as they should. The screw threads needed to pull the guts out don't quite match the threads inside the rod used to grab this stuff. They just didn't bother to check to see if the two parts matched properly. THAT WAS A REAL DISAPPOINTMENT!
The new Lyman 4500 is excellent. One problem, however. Reall old sizing dies might not fit. Tolerances have been tightened up and that means that some old sizing dies just will not fit.
The RCBS unit is very good and does not seem to have the problem of older sizing dies not fitting.
One thing though. With both the RCBS and Lyman units you can get, from secondary sources, sizing dies with diameters so large that neither the RCBS nor Lyman units can easily get them out. A 0.575 die, for example, is made that will fit this style of unit. Trying to get it out of the machine, however, is, well, a REAL experience.
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